How far is to far?

[WV Mountaineer]

I hate these kind of debates. Because a bunch feel compelled to tell you what’s right for you. Based on them.



Long Range shooting rigs are unbelievable nowadays. The people shooting them regularly are on par with the stuff Carlos Hatcock was made famous for. It’s impossible to say what range or who needs to be doing what.


I once missed a deer at 16 yards with a bolt action rifle. To kill another 20 minutes later at 312. That’s the way it works with any weapon. Bow or gun. Do your part means good. Don’t and it means bad.

 

[5MilesBack]

I've rifle shot elk that never even showed a sign of being hit, in each case I thought I somehow missed.......until I found blood or the animal. But even beyond that, even at archery distances it can be a real bear sometimes after the shot to find where the animal was standing at the shot. It's rarely a straight line approach to the spot and everything looks different from different angles, and that's only 40 yards maybe. I can't imagine hiking almost a mile straight line distance and trying to find the exact spot where an animal was standing. Even for archery these days, I immediately mark the spot where I shot from with a piece of flagging tape I keep in my pocket, and then try to find where the animal was standing and mark that spot as well........just so I can keep my arrow flight direction accurate and know exactly where it all happened because I know how tough it can be to find it in the first place.

 

[Mark86]

For some shooters 100 yards is too far and some guys are so ridiculously proficient with their rifles the max is probably as far as they can see. Way too many variables shooter to shooter to put a number on it.

Personally, I practice regularly to about 1100 but don’t have the confidence to shoot an animal that far. I try to get as close as possible so most my shots on animals are between 50-300 yards but not against letting lose at longer ranges depending on the scenario.

What’s really annoying are the types that think that just because they have a capable shooting system, they are as capable without putting in the trigger time



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MattB]

My personal feeling is that, when the aspect of eluding an animal and its senses is entirely removed from the hunt, it ceases to be a hunt. That renders the term "long range hunting" an oxymoron.

 

[Thunder head]

I must admit I'm conflicted on this.
On the one hand. If you spend the money and time too be able to reliably shoot animals at distance. I cant bad mouth you.
On the other. I kinda feel like sniping at animals from two ridges over does not fit my definition of hunting.

I can tell you this. Even with good equipment its not that easy. I bought a new rifle. Worked up a custom hand load for it. Got a scope with CDS turrets exactly for that load. I pushed my max out to 4oo. Past that I wasn't consistent enough to be shooting at anything alive.

 

[5MilesBack]

My personal feeling is that, when the aspect of eluding an animal and its senses is entirely removed from the hunt, it ceases to be a hunt. That renders the term "long range hunting" an oxymoron.

I consider it all long range hunting (archery and rifle) until I'm ready to shoot, and then it's just shooting........no matter what the distance is. At that point the hunting is over.

 

[jmden]

My personal feeling is that, when the aspect of eluding an animal and its senses is entirely removed from the hunt, it ceases to be a hunt. That renders the term "long range hunting" an oxymoron.

Isn't that what much effort in hunting put in to? Eluding the senses of the animal? This is another area where a great deal of effort is/should be put toward doing that. Since we picked up a rock or whatever to kill an animal, many things (thousands and thousands) have been invented to 'give us an advantage'. Is someone sitting in a tree stand eluding the senses of an animal an unfair advantage? 'Cause that's not really stalking to within 'range', is it? Is camo or scent killers or warm clothes so we can stay out in cold weather too much of an advantage?

People are shooting animals with a compound bow at 70+ yards when the 'old' max was considered 40 yards when I was shooting a compoud bow years ago. I think the archery guys that 'shoot long' should chime in here. The long range rifle guys always get torn apart, but there's plenty of 'long range' archery guys. Principles are nearly the same. A few years ago, 400 yds (40 yards bowhunting) might have been considered a 'max' distance, now 700 (70 yds for bowhunting) is for many that put true effort into it, their max. Is one OK and another not? Who's to judge?

This is often such and arbitrary argument when you get right down to it and more than that, it divides us. It shouldn't.
Like I always say, hunt legally...hunt responsibly. Take only high percentage shots. And still things will go wrong on occasion, which completely sucks. Turns out life isn't perfect.

 

[MattB]

Isn't that what much effort in hunting put in to? Eluding the senses of the animal? This is another area where a great deal of effort is/should be put toward doing that. Since we picked up a rock or whatever to kill an animal, many things (thousands and thousands) have been invented to 'give us an advantage'. Is someone sitting in a tree stand eluding the senses of an animal an unfair advantage? 'Cause that's not really stalking to within 'range', is it? Is camo or scent killers or warm clothes so we can stay out in cold weather too much of an advantage?

People are shooting animals with a compound bow at 70+ yards when the 'old' max was considered 40 yards when I was shooting a compoud bow years ago. I think the archery guys that 'shoot long' should chime in here. The long range rifle guys always get torn apart, but there's plenty of 'long range' archery guys. Principles are nearly the same. A few years ago, 400 yds (40 yards bowhunting) might have been considered a 'max' distance, now 700 (70 yds for bowhunting) is for many that put true effort into it, their max. Is one OK and another not? Who's to judge?

This is often such and arbitrary argument when you get right down to it and more than that, it divides us. It shouldn't.
Like I always say, hunt legally...hunt responsibly. Take only high percentage shots. And still things will go wrong on occasion, which completely sucks. Turns out life isn't perfect.

We all need to draw our own lines, and there is a near infinite continuum of means to tip the odds in the hunter's favor - today more than ever. Actively and successfully eluding my prey's sense is an integral part of the hunt and much of what *I* enjoy about it. Taking on methods that eliminate all need to consider that would shift it to shooting or harvesting, it wouldn't be a hunt to me.

Therein lies the distinction between what is legal , what is ethical, and what is aesthetic.

I really appreciate the skill and dedication it takes to consistently hit at long range, but conversely *I* wouldn't take any enjoyment in applying that to big game hunting.

 

[jmden]

We all need to draw our own lines, and there is a near infinite continuum of means to tip the odds in the hunter's favor - today more than ever. Actively and successfully eluding my prey's sense is an integral part of the hunt and much of what *I* enjoy about it. Taking on methods that eliminate all need to consider that would shift it to shooting or harvesting, it wouldn't be a hunt to me.

Therein lies the distinction between what is legal , what is ethical, and what is aesthetic.

I really appreciate the skill and dedication it takes to consistently hit at long range, but converse *I* wouldn't take any enjoyment in applying that to big game hunting.

That's great and good on you!

I love to do the same and have, but I also think for those that like to, 'long range' hunting shouldn't be looked down upon, not that that's what you are doing, etc., but some do, unfortunately.

Let's support each individuals choice of what hunting form/style they want to do that's legal, responsible hunting, responsible 'long range' hunting included.

 

[isu22andy]

Seems like everyone I know is some 500 yard ace shooter because they been hunting X number of years and shot a 3 coyotes at 400 yards. You get them infront of paper at 300 yards and they fall apart. Im no different, seems like when the time comes I can make some miraculous shots , come paper , forget about it .

 

[dieselchessy]

I think these conversations are better served when folks don’t so much talk about a specific range, but talk about the proper mindset, skill set, and reasoning for thier decision on the subject.

Things like:
The range I can hit a paper plate in field positions 9 out of 10 shots.
The range my bullet has 1500 ftlbs of energy.
Follow up every shot and go look for any sign of a hit.
Consider weather conditions and how they affect tracking. Like pouring rain, snow, ect....
Consider the terrain and the difficulty in locating the spot the animal was at when shot.
Ect.......
Folks have already brought up these and more in this thread.

Those type things inform folks of what the group feels needs to go into any shot on game. Those are the things we can teach others.
We don’t have to talk specific distance. We all know distance is dictated by conditions. There is no hard and fast.

It’s not about dictating a max range. It’s about helping others to determine their max effective range.

 

[16Bore]

Way too much emphasis is put on distance.....seems there’s more recklessness than anything.

Easier to learn to shoot further than get closer.

Gear is pushed that direction these days because there’s really no other way to go.

Long shots are glorified for some stupid reason and I think guys are looking for them for internet bragging rights.

“How far” doesn’t matter.....

 

[Mark86]

Actually shooting long distances is much different than just dialing what a ballistics chart shows.

Agree but the masses don’t tend to understand that. The issue is people don’t put in the time and effort to be effective to X range and just think it’s as simple as range, dial, boom, dead.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[16Bore]

People don’t put in effort for a lot of the aspects of hunting.....

 

[TREE ‘EM]

If you hunt long enough you’ll miss a shot you should’ve made and make a shot you should’ve missed.

I see a lot of hunters who try to buy skill. Look at the sales numbers to hunters for sniper rifles, scopes, scent-lock clothes, fashion camo, etc.
I’m not condemning people for buying such items as it human nature to try and gain an advantage by any means possible. Simply illustrating the point.

My personal rule of thumb is, whatever distance one can make consistent first-round hits in practice under field conditions and field settings, divide by two and that’s the personal effective range. This philosophy allows for the person behind the gun to feel absolute confidence within that range.
And sometime you still miss.

 

[Mark86]

If you hunt long enough you’ll miss a shot you should’ve made and make a shot you should’ve missed.

I see a lot of hunters who try to buy skill. Look at the sales numbers to hunters for sniper rifles, scopes, scent-lock clothes, fashion camo, etc.
I’m not condemning people for buying such items as it human nature to try and gain an advantage by any means possible. Simply illustrating the point.

My personal rule of thumb is, whatever distance one can make consistent first-round hits in practice under field conditions and field settings, divide by two and that’s the personal effective range. This philosophy allows for the person behind the gun to feel absolute confidence within that range.
And sometime you still miss.

Yup, can’t buy it lol. With your first hit rule...I like that. We should EXPECT to make first shot kills not be surprised by first shot hits. But yeah....misses still happen haha last year I missed a huge bear without explanation. Still haunts me. 386 yards. Quartering away. Motionless. Prone on bipods. Still can’t explain the miss just missed. Going back for revenge this year though that ol bear is in trouble


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MallardSX2]

Set up pie plates. 100, 200, 300 ,400,500,600 etc.

When you cant hit one of them with a cold bore on the first shot. Go backwards 100 yards and thats your effective range.

Bet you 95% of the people on here couldn't hit a pie plate at 400 yards under normal hunting pressure/situation and 40% couldn't do it from a solid bench.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Isn't that what much effort in hunting put in to? Eluding the senses of the animal? This is another area where a great deal of effort is/should be put toward doing that. Since we picked up a rock or whatever to kill an animal, many things (thousands and thousands) have been invented to 'give us an advantage'. Is someone sitting in a tree stand eluding the senses of an animal an unfair advantage? 'Cause that's not really stalking to within 'range', is it? Is camo or scent killers or warm clothes so we can stay out in cold weather too much of an advantage?

People are shooting animals with a compound bow at 70+ yards when the 'old' max was considered 40 yards when I was shooting a compoud bow years ago. I think the archery guys that 'shoot long' should chime in here. The long range rifle guys always get torn apart, but there's plenty of 'long range' archery guys. Principles are nearly the same. A few years ago, 400 yds (40 yards bowhunting) might have been considered a 'max' distance, now 700 (70 yds for bowhunting) is for many that put true effort into it, their max. Is one OK and another not? Who's to judge?

This is often such and arbitrary argument when you get right down to it and more than that, it divides us. It shouldn't.
Like I always say, hunt legally...hunt responsibly. Take only high percentage shots. And still things will go wrong on occasion, which completely sucks. Turns out life isn't perfect.

Great post on this subject. I too think hunters have been working to gain an advantage over the animals since we started hunting them.

We hunt them in the rut.
We use compound bows.
We use treestands.
We use rifles.
We use food plots and bait.
We use dogs.

I could go on all day but my point to anyone claiming they don't like "long range" hunting is this; There are lots of ways to "gain advantage". We need to stick together and stop thinking we are better than another hunter because our way is "better".

 

[16Bore]

Have harvest numbers increased because gear has stretched the distance, or are distances stretched because of some other reason?

 

[MallardSX2]

I have no doubt people stretch the gun barrel when they feel the need to shoot something big.

Prime example:

My father-in-law really wanted to shoot at a good deer at 600 yards. Could he have hit it? maybe. We got to 300 yards and sat there for 4 hours waiting on that deer to come out of that canyon. It got dark on us and the deer never came out. He layed there until dark like those big old bucks do sometimes.

He talks about how he should have tried the shot from 600 yards.

I'm still glad he didn't take the shot.

Why? Because the wind was blowing 30 MPH and I didn't feel like having a rodeo chasing a wounded deer around. It was a very big buck. But it was not worth it.

90% of people would have tried the shot I bet.

Fact of the matter is that he went home empty handed. And thats OK. We didn't leave with a wounded deer running around....

Thats sportsmanship. Most people just dont have it.

I pulled off a 400 yard shot on a whitetail on the last day. There was no wind and I still didn't hit exactly where I was aiming and I consider myself to be a pretty good shot. For the record, I would have missed the pie plate. (hit the deer in the liver/back of lungs)

I consider myself to be a 400 yard max shooter and there is no telling how many thousands of rounds I fired downrange. In normal hunting situations 400 yards and under is my personal limit.

DO I JUDGE people who shoot animals at 1000 yards and put it on YouTube for the sake of selling rifles? YES I absolutely do. I always will. That is reckless/unethical greed in my opinion and they should have their licenses taken away.

Hate me for it? Thats fine, at least you know where I stand.