How worth it are micro-diameter arrows?

[letrbuck]

Been shooting GT Hunter XT and Pros for a while, no complaints but thinking about dabbling into the skinny shaft arrows. If I do it will probably be the GT Pierce Platinums. I know two of the bigger arguments are better penetration and less wind drift. Is the difference that big under 40-50yds? Other benefits? Any draw backs to the skinnys? I have had one person tell me the 'fatter' arrows can be a little more forgiving. The collar system for FOC reasons is a moot point to me. I'm currently shooting 200gr heads for total arrow weight of 503 and about 17.2% FOC. If I would switch to the Pierce Platinums I'd probably drop to a 150 head and one FACT weight and my total arrow weight and FOC would be 498 and 17.2%.

Thoughts from the archery nerds/gurus out there?

 

[Trial153]

Not worth it at all.
Get a .204 id shaft and save the headaches and expense.

 

[Lawnboi]

I’m far from an archery guru, so I can only give you my slightly below average opinion.

I ran micro diameter the last couple years. Easton injexions, with double stacked deep six. To begin with I’m not an outsert guy, I don’t like them, and have had enough problems that I now stay away from them. I’m going away from micro only because of the deep six system. There are so few heads available I found it useless to invest more money. The arrows are very very nice. Thick walled, tough, heavy, everything I want, deep six just isn’t worth it to me anymore. Micro did help a little in the wind, I don’t think it did squat for penetration with a broadhead.

I am now back to .204 diameter arrows, Easton axis with collars and hit inserts. Still get a skinny shaft, only gaining a millimeter fatter, but don’t have to dink around with deep six or outserts.

 

[fatlander]

They’re not worth it.

Let’s think about penetration and wind drift:

Penetration, the broadhead cuts a hole much larger than any standard shaft. Momentum is what drives penetrations.

Wind drift, if your shooting a fixed blade, you’ve got a giant propeller on the front and rear of the shaft. What do you think causes wind drift: shaft diameter or two things on either end of your shaft that, by design, catch wind??

It’s all marketing snakeoil. Apples to apples (same arrow weight, FOC, broadhead, and shot out of the same bow) the differences are a wash.




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[jlaner0408]

.204’s are the smallest I’d go. Pair them with hit’s or ethics archery stainless half outs and you’re in business. The .166’s just seem too flimsy for my liking. Any archery range you go to, you’ll see a few inches worth of .166 broken shaft ends laying around targets all the time. No bueno

 

[Brendan]

Great arrows, did not like the outsert. As above - I'd stick with a .204 / 5mm shaft.

 

[jmez]

Been down the same road. Messed with various combinations of weights and outserts for a year and a half with the skinny arrows. I never saw any benefit with them and building them is a PITA, outserts bend etc. Stick with a bigger arrow.

 

[Idaho Lefty]

They’re not worth it.

Let’s think about penetration and wind drift:

Penetration, the broadhead cuts a hole much larger than any standard shaft. Momentum is what drives penetrations.

Wind drift, if your shooting a fixed blade, you’ve got a giant propeller on the front and rear of the shaft. What do you think causes wind drift: shaft diameter or two things on either end of your shaft that, by design, catch wind??

It’s all marketing snakeoil. Apples to apples (same arrow weight, FOC, broadhead, and shot out of the same bow) the differences are a wash.




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YUP,... THIS ^^^^ Well "said" ! Use enough Vane to steer the B-H accurately and B-S "Tune" your Bows ! With, a descent amount of, FOC, something close to 13-17 % FOC and 7.5 to 9.5 GPP of total Arrow weight vs your pull poundage. Yes, the Broadhead punches, a way bigger "Hole" than, the Shaft with, a "good", 3 or 4 Blade Head ! We've been using GT XT Hunters for, over a Decade with, NO "problems" on,.. Elk/Moose.

 

[dittydogood]

With everything already being said, the gt kinetic pierce is an awesome arrow. The half out with the collar gives durability and a micro that can use any standard broadhead.

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[Wellsdw]

Id recommend getting rid of all those Hunters and pros ASAP. I actually think they cause cancer in CA. Fortunately for you i have a standard size diameter arrow land fill in my back yard. I'll dispose of them free of charge! Assuming they are 300's 29.5" of course.

Sorry couldnt help it. I'll 2nd, and 3rd everything about the whole penetration, wind drift "hype" BS. If your broadhead hits where your FP's do, thats all that matters. Ive tried shooting a little bit of everything when tinkering with my trad bow, (I mostly hunt compound) and nothing beats gold tip durability. ive gone back time and time again.

 

[EDW]

KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid). Why are you fixing something that ain't broke. I would stick with what has served you well over the years. If you must change do not go smaller than .204.

 

[Brendan]

With everything already being said, the gt kinetic pierce is an awesome arrow. The half out with the collar gives durability and a micro that can use any standard broadhead.

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Awesome arrow - I agree. But, do not agree on durability of the half out and collar. Bag targets did a number on mine, and couldn't keep them spinning true.

 

[jmez]

Same experience as Brendan with the GT outsert system. I also found the Pierce arrows to be fragile and break easily.

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[dittydogood]

Awesome arrow - I agree. But, do not agree on durability of the half out and collar. Bag targets did a number on mine, and couldn't keep them spinning true.

We're they breaking? What problems were you having?

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[Brendan]

I didn't have any breakage issues with the arrows, although I did have a fairly extended deep 6 insert in the shaft after I ditched the half-outs and collars.


I could not reliably get the collar/broadhead combo to spin true, and for those that I did, I'd eventually tweak them in targets to where they wouldn't any more. Collars would also hang up pulling out of targets.

 

[S.Clancy]

Been shooting GT Hunter XT and Pros for a while, no complaints but thinking about dabbling into the skinny shaft arrows. If I do it will probably be the GT Pierce Platinums. I know two of the bigger arguments are better penetration and less wind drift. Is the difference that big under 40-50yds? Other benefits? Any draw backs to the skinnys? I have had one person tell me the 'fatter' arrows can be a little more forgiving. The collar system for FOC reasons is a moot point to me. I'm currently shooting 200gr heads for total arrow weight of 503 and about 17.2% FOC. If I would switch to the Pierce Platinums I'd probably drop to a 150 head and one FACT weight and my total arrow weight and FOC would be 498 and 17.2%.

Thoughts from the archery nerds/gurus out there?

I guess if you want to spend $200 on arrows, then have to hunt around to find decent broadheads for the deep six insert to get the same results have at it. Ain't my money.

 

[Beendare]

Those skinny shafts are worse BY DESIGN. Saw it for many years shooting them in the 80's,90's...its why they discontinued them.

Key Factor in arrow assembly; arrow components borrow from the shaft. So if you have little overlap....or poor tolerances....makes it tough to get your BH's on perfectly straight. You might be able to make the skinny shafts work with expensive outserts and some meticulous assembly...but I agree with the many knowledgeable guys above- not worth the effort and expense.

Personally, I like the HIT inserts but am waiting for someone to make a 3" insert- that would be the chit.

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[TimberHunter]

Those skinny shafts are worse BY DESIGN. Saw it for many years shooting them in the 80's,90's...its why they discontinued them.

Key Factor in arrow assembly; arrow components borrow from the shaft. So if you have little overlap....or poor tolerances....makes it tough to get your BH's on perfectly straight. You might be able to make the skinny shafts work with expensive outserts and some meticulous assembly...but I agree with the many knowledgeable guys above- not worth the effort and expense.

Personally, I like the HIT inserts but am waiting for someone to make a 3" insert- that would be the chit.

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What about doubling up the 5mm HIT insert? I would think it would stiffen the arrow sound slightly, give more FOC and more glue surface for the insert to adhere to the shaft so you don’t get the insert push back and carbon splintering on the hard impacts

 

[dittydogood]

I guess if you want to spend $200 on arrows, then have to hunt around to find decent broadheads for the deep six insert to get the same results have at it. Ain't my money.

Gt pierce platinum use a half outsert so you can use regular broadheads

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[Beendare]

What about doubling up the 5mm HIT insert? I would think it would stiffen the arrow sound slightly, give more FOC and more glue surface for the insert to adhere to the shaft so you don’t get the insert push back and carbon splintering on the hard impacts

The long HITS are good....but 2 aren't better than one in this case....a longer insert has more internal shaft contact borrowing from the straightness of the shaft itself. One longer insert would be bad ass.

Something like a 7/8" long insert [or outsert] borrows from the last 7/8 of the shaft...The long HITS are about 1 1/2" and they are inserted deeper into the shaft....so now the insert borrows from 1 1/2" of shaft [and not at what could have some runout- the very end] plus with the hit your BH shaft borrows from the shaft too.

So assuming your arrow is straight....this long Axis HIT system borrows from about 2" of shaft. Plus they use a thick epoxy that forms an even layer. There is always going to be issues with manufacturing tolerances being a perfect match...but the HIT system mitigates that by design.

On the other hand, an outsert that borrows from less shaft and has poor tolerances will give you wobble.

The only way I would shoot those skinny shafts, is using that outsert [can't remember who makes it] that has a corresponding long internal prong that borrows from more of the shaft straightness. Straighter components by design....and probably stronger too.



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