Hoyt Tail High Fixes...

Brendan

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This is something I've battled on a handful of Hoyts, and I'm now battling it again on two of them. I want to say we had an earlier thread here discussing the same thing but I can't find it.

This time around it is with a 2018 RX1 Ultra and a 2020 RX4 Alpha. In both cases I start with nock level, cams timed dead even and then start tuning bare shafts. On both bows I now have the bottom cam advanced ~1/8" and the arrow either nock level or nock low at brace and I'll still get a nock high bare shaft. Seems strange to me that the with the RX4 (as an example) I now have the arrow visibly pointing up at brace, the bottom cam ahead, and I still might be a little tail high / low impact.

I run a 300 spine arrow, 27.5" carbon-to-carbon, 175-200 grains total weight up front, 71-74# DW, 29" DL. I don't think this is a spine issue but maybe some testing is in order. Not fletching contact as we're talking bare shafts. I don't think it's nock pinch, just re-tied nock set wider and put a new loop on one bow.

So - what ideas do you have?

Rest is a Hamskea, I could play with launcher spring tension. I could play with launcher blade timing - I have it coming up to full height maybe 6" before full draw.

Has anyone seen differences based on where the arrow is with relation to the berger hole? Generally, I start middle of the arrow through middle of the hole.

I feel like I shouldn't be having this much trouble. My Hoyts used to be easy peasy, but feel like I haven't been there since my Carbon Defiant Turbo.

@ontarget7 - You still hanging out here? I know you had good luck tuning the RX4...
 
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Zac

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I could be wrong but I believe you want to advance the top cam, and retard the bottom. You can get away with moving the shaft up so that the bottom of the shaft runs through the center of the Berger. You never want to run dead level with a cam and a half anyway. I would always start 1/8 inch nock high. I had a Defiant that did the same thing. I think this is fairly common.
 
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Brendan

Brendan

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High Tear you slow down top cam, speed up the bottom:


Hoyt does recommend dead level to Top cam Ahead - but bow isn't tuning that way.

Nock High starting point would make it way worse.

Have you played with the arrrow shaft in relation to the berger hole and tuning results and seen how it affects cam timing? Or are you guessing?
 
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Brendan

Brendan

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Where are you attaching your rest cord at on the limb?

I have been timing it on the draw board such that the rest comes all the way up about 6-8" before full draw. That ends up being in the limb towards the pocket a decent amount not out by the tip.

Edit: About half way from tip to limb pocket on the RX4
 
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Billy Goat

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Try running a piece of fishing line thru the axles while on a drawboard and watch the cam sync thru the draw cycle. It's a pia, but you might see where they are off. A few cam systems aren't in tune with the stops, as you are finding.
 

OR Archer

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You really shouldn’t be past the cam on either of those two bows for your cord attachment. That rest should be all the way up within the first six inches of the draw cycle not the last.
 
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Brendan

Brendan

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You really shouldn’t be past the cam on either of those two bows for your cord attachment. That rest should be all the way up within the first six inches of the draw cycle not the last.
What's the reasoning for that, and have you noticed a tuning difference? I swear I'd read that it was last 6-8" but it's been a couple years since I thought about it.

Tried moving all the way to the limb tip this morning and made virtually no difference. Maybe a hair right / left.

I am wondering if this could be limb deflections and if it's worth doing a top/bottom swap to test.
 

5MilesBack

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I would try turning the bow down to 60lbs and see if that changes anything. I've seen or heard of some bows from the past (not specific to Hoyt) that have a really high tear until an ultra stiff arrow is used. Just try it and see what it does if anything.

I'm not one that gets caught up in conventional wisdom, guidance, or doctrine when it comes to getting the bow to do what I want it to do. Many times I've gone opposite of those and it immediately brought things right where I wanted them.
 
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OR Archer

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What's the reasoning for that, and have you noticed a tuning difference? I swear I'd read that it was last 6-8" but it's been a couple years since I thought about it.

Tried moving all the way to the limb tip this morning and made virtually no difference. Maybe a hair right / left.

I am wondering if this could be limb deflections and if it's worth doing a top/bottom swap to test.
Yes there’s most definitely a difference in how the arrow reacts depending on how long the rest is supporting it.
I would personally move it to about 1.5” from the limb tip then reset the timing to dead even and reset your nock point to level.
As far as deflections go no that’s not it. Hoyt limbs are all the same deflection. So don’t waste your time.
 
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Brendan

Brendan

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I'm not optimistic it's anything to do with spine - I've been running these arrows out of multiple bows for years now without too much issue, but will run some tests in the next couple days to be sure with different arrows, different point weights, different spines, etc. And, I can get it to tune and bare shafts to fly, it's just wacky how it tunes.

I may start from ground zero again, but so far the rest timing adjustment did nothing on it's own.
I May at the same time try higher in the berger hole - we'll see. Technically that should change things.

The reason I mentioned the limbs - I saw one person mentioned that happening to him with a Hoyt, and the swap cleared this problem right up. If you get one limb with tolerances off on deflection or two at the top end and two at the bottom end of tolerances - it could happen.

Will report back, but will probably be a couple days.
 

OR Archer

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Limb deflection issues will show more in lateral nock movements not vertical. Not to mention the likelihood of that on two bows is slim to none.

As far as the rest timing if you don’t reset the other adjustments you’ll not see an improvement by itself. Start from square one. Arrow through the center of the Berger, nock at 90, and your timing set dead even with the rest cord moved back.
 

Billy Goat

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My Hoyt fix was sell it.

Haven't had the problem since.

That was the Carbon Defiant Turbo, I decided things shouldn't be this hard.

We are at 24 hours since first post, I can derail it now.
 
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Brendan

Brendan

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My Hoyt fix was sell it.

Haven't had the problem since.

That was the Carbon Defiant Turbo, I decided things shouldn't be this hard.

We are at 24 hours since first post, I can derail it now.

Last Hoyt I tuned that went incredibly easy without issues for me was my Carbon Defiant Turbo, but that was after it exploded at full draw and sent pieces past the 30 yard target butt. I think Hoyt must've given that one some TLC before they sent it back to me...

It's become a Love Hate relationship with me but I saw a great review from Shane / Ontarget with the RX4 that these issues were cured, great spine forgiveness, etc, etc.
 

ncavi8tor

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Take out the Hole Shot String Silencer. You don't need it and it causes nock high. Fixed it on my Axius Alpha and RX-4! Time the cams dead even or top very slightly ahead and nock level.

NC

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Marble

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I think the most consistent advice given is to go back to zero per specs from Hoyt and the adjust per their tuning instructions.

My hoyts have tuned easy by starting at even timing, nock level and have sometimes had the top cam advanced slightly or the rest bumped down little bit.

Set up is nearly identical but...nearly.

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Brendan

Brendan

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Take out the Hole Shot String Silencer. You don't need it and it causes nock high. Fixed it on my Axius Alpha and RX-4! Time the cams dead even or top very slightly ahead and nock level.

NC

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I'll be damned. That was it for the RX4. Everything is immediately shooting right down the center cams dead even. First shots and bare shafts are shooting with fletched at 35 yards...

Makes me think, I put a new string (not cables) on the RX1 - maybe I should take a closer look at the speed nocks....
 

ncavi8tor

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I'll be damned. That was it for the RX4. Everything is immediately shooting right down the center cams dead even. First shots and bare shafts are shooting with fletched at 35 yards...

Makes me think, I put a new string (not cables) on the RX1 - maybe I should take a closer look at the speed nocks....
Yep. That fixes the nock high on the bows that come with only one of those silencers on the bottom. Playing with the speed nock location on your RX-1 will probably fix that one too if you can find the sweet spot.

NC

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