Hoyt Ventum 33 tuning issues

[OR Archer]

Loops over the top. To answer the other questions, I mostly wan't to move the rest over to the left a little so that I can see my entire site housing. I'm not gonna shoot out to distance until I get everything where I want it. Lancaster has a shim kit that is supposed to work for the Hoyt axle size. It was really popular with PSE guys, there are alot of options with that kit I think it should work well. he Hoyt kit was basically a waste of 50 bucks. There is only two sizes and they are so similar that I couldn't really tell the difference.

Just be cautious of over shimming. Too much can cause the stops to slip past the cables and lock the cams up.

 

[Zac]

While I was waiting for my shim kit I decided to cut down on my shaft a bit. Reset the rest to 3/4 and got this with a 26 inch 300 Axis. As for now it appears this thing likes insanely stiff hardware.

 

[Billy Goat]

While I was waiting for my shim kit I decided to cut down on my shaft a bit. Reset the rest to 3/4 and got this with a 26 inch 300 Axis. As for now it appears this thing likes insanely stiff hardware.

Just goes with the idea that it's hard to get too stiff with a hunting compound.



300 spine on a 26" shaft doesn't sound that crazy stiff to me. It just makes me wonder how some of these long draw/arrow shooters get stuff to tune. They are apparently a lot better at it than me.

 

[406unltd]

While I was waiting for my shim kit I decided to cut down on my shaft a bit. Reset the rest to 3/4 and got this with a 26 inch 300 Axis. As for now it appears this thing likes insanely stiff hardware.

Makes sense to me. I’m not sure if it’s my draw length or what but it’s a pretty aggressive cam that’s a really stiff pull. Atleast it is on mine at 31”. My realmx was an easy pull in comparison. Again that’s at my draw length and my perception. Hope it works out for you man

 

[Zac]

Makes sense to me. I’m not sure if it’s my draw length or what but it’s a pretty aggressive cam that’s a really stiff pull. Atleast it is on mine at 31”. My realmx was an easy pull in comparison. Again that’s at my draw length and my perception. Hope it works out for you man

Yeah once I get my shims I'll move it around until I get to around 13/16. I suppose I could shoot a collar if I used my 260s. Right now my 300s are cut right to the rest. I'd be interested to see what you come up with, for that crazy draw of yours.

 

[406unltd]

Yeah once I get my shims I'll move it around until I get to around 13/16. I suppose I could shoot a collar if I used my 260s. Right now my 300s are cut right to the rest. I'd be interested to see what you come up with, for that crazy draw of yours.

What I built for this year was vap elite .250 cut to 29.5, 180 short jag, 20g alum sleeve, 4 hybrid 26 on the back and I’m not sure of the nocks. I know that Hoyt string had more strands than my last bow because only one of my nock types I had actually fit correctly. It bareshafted good and bh tuned great at long range.

 

[Zac]

What I built for this year was vap elite .250 cut to 29.5, 180 short jag, 20g alum sleeve, 4 hybrid 26 on the back and I’m not sure of the nocks. I know that Hoyt string had more strands than my last bow because only one of my nock types I had actually fit correctly. It bareshafted good and bh tuned great at long range.

Can't really beat Vaps for a stiff arrow. This cam is way more agressive at the top end than I anticipated.

 

[Zac]

Okay final update. Didn't need the Lancaster shim kit. Below is broadhead and field point at 20 and the picture to the right is 30. I have a 26 1/8 inch Axis. 150 up front, 3 Tac Drivers and a Nocturnal. Broadhead is the fixed 100 grain Evolution Outdoors. 467 grains. Centershot is right between the hashes of 13/16 and 3/4. Not sure of the speed.

 

[Arctic Hunter]

Okay final update. Didn't need the Lancaster shim kit. Below is broadhead and field point at 20 and the picture to the right is 30. I have a 26 1/8 inch Axis. 150 up front, 3 Tac Drivers and a Nocturnal. Broadhead is the fixed 100 grain Evolution Outdoors. 467 grains. Centershot is right between the hashes of 13/16 and 3/4. Not sure of the speed.

Did you end up with shims back at the factory settings?

 

[Zac]

Did you end up with shims back at the factory settings?

No I bought the Hoyt kit. Used the slightly more agressive black shims. Had to move both cams to the left. I ordered another shim kit from Lancaster and didn't end up needing to use it. However if I needed to put more length on an arrow for a collar or bigger fixed blade I would definitely need to do some more agressive shimming. I still can't believe how weak that thing is treating my arrows at the top of that first module.

 

[Dwinsall]

I have had enough time behind this bow by now to give a good assessment. I initially reported a bunch of false tuning due to using the wrong type of paper for tuning. I have since struggled with a left sided tear. I put an ABB Platinum on and timed it with no issues. I started out by shimming both cams to the left with the stock shims. I moved my rest from 13/16ths to 3/4 and experimented with 28.5, 28, and 27 inch 300 spine Axis shafts. Shooting 70 lbs at 29 inches. I used point weights from 125 up to 175. I also ran Beiter, Bohning, and Nocturnal nocks. I seemed to have the exact same tear regardless of the arrow build. Eventually I stacked both the bottom shims on the right side to shift the cam all the way to the left. This ended up being too dramatic of a change. I bought the Hoyt shim kit and was fairly disappointed with the offerings. I used the slightly more aggressive black shims to again move both top and bottom cams to the left. The tears didn't start to clean up until I switched from My tension activated release to my hinge. I found that pulling hard into the back wall continually gave me the left tear. I was able to intermittently get perfect holes while relaxing the release hand. I was able to get perfect holes at 6 feet without touching my face to the string at all. So far this bow has been extremely sensitive to grip. I have used the stock grip, side plates, and turf tape with fairly mixed results. Bare shafts at 20 confirm the left tear. Anyone else have any insight or suggestions on this?

Ok Zac so I have a bit of experience here and hopefully my experience can help you out. I had the exact same problem but was able to correct it rather quickly. But before you get started make sure that everything else is setup correctly on the bow... The newer bows are really wound so tight that they actually have problems shooting some arrows that, for the bow, are under spined. I had the same issue with a bow of mine. Particularly when I put more weight up front thus giving it more FOC. The way that I corrected this was to go from a 350 spine VAP arrow to a 250 spine VAP arrow. This gave me perfect bullet holes. Each year the bows are getting faster and faster and that creates more torque on the arrows and I think it could be affecting what's known as the archers paradox. Everything has a breaking point. I feel that eventually you just have no choice but to either turn down your bow (to decrease the speed for the spined arrows you currently have) or shoot a different spined arrow. To boil it down, if your issue is the same as mine it will either cost you a few turns of an allen wrench or some money for new arrows. To find out if the different spined arrows will help simply take it to a shop and shoot some of their arrows sitting around. Good Luck!!!

 

[Zac]

Ok Zac so I have a bit of experience here and hopefully my experience can help you out. I had the exact same problem but was able to correct it rather quickly. But before you get started make sure that everything else is setup correctly on the bow... The newer bows are really wound so tight that they actually have problems shooting some arrows that, for the bow, are under spined. I had the same issue with a bow of mine. Particularly when I put more weight up front thus giving it more FOC. The way that I corrected this was to go from a 350 spine VAP arrow to a 250 spine VAP arrow. This gave me perfect bullet holes. Each year the bows are getting faster and faster and that creates more torque on the arrows and I think it could be affecting what's known as the archers paradox. Everything has a breaking point. I feel that eventually you just have no choice but to either turn down your bow (to decrease the speed for the spined arrows you currently have) or shoot a different spined arrow. To boil it down, if your issue is the same as mine it will either cost you a few turns of an allen wrench or some money for new arrows. To find out if the different spined arrows will help simply take it to a shop and shoot some of their arrows sitting around. Good Luck!!!

Yeah I had it down to 68 lbs, however I was still just inside of 3/4. I ended up using the Lancaster shim kit. Had to figure out how to make .195 worth of shims out of all the different sizes. I did try out a 260 Axis that ended up just being too heavy. So far with the shim kit everything looks perfect, however I may run into issues with fixed blades. If so I will probably run a 250 Rampage. I had a few of those laying around and they seemed to spine out well. Thanks for the advice.

 

[Zac]

Not sure if anyone is following this anymore but here is what I ended up with after using the Lancaster shim kit. One issue I think was screwing me up was not nock tuning. Whoever told me that you have to still nock tune Axis arrows was right.

 

[N2TRKYS]

With all the trouble this bow has given, would you buy it again? Or would you get something else?

 

[CodeMonkey]

So I've had this theory rattling around in my head (which could explain what we're seeing here) that all spine charts are total BS.

Here's why... modern bows transfer their energy into the arrow in very, very different ways. Draw a Hoyt, then draw a Matthews. The Hoyt has a hump and then goes into a valley. The Matthews is far more linear. What you feel in your shoulder is basically what the arrow feels in reverse. The Matthews slowly dumps energy into the arrow, whereas the Hoyt dumps all of its energy at the very end of the cam's rotation. Think of the arrow like a shock on your truck. In each of these cases, your truck just hit a very different kind of bump.

Not saying that arrow spine is to blame here, but it's something to look out for especially on the new Hoyts where the top end of each of the modules seems to be an energy sweet spot. Couple that with the fact that the Hoyt dumps energy into the arrow all at once and I think there could be a case for the bow wanting a stiffer arrow than you would normally run.

 

[Billy Goat]

So I've had this theory rattling around in my head (which could explain what we're seeing here) that all spine charts are total BS.

Here's why... modern bows transfer their energy into the arrow in very, very different ways. Draw a Hoyt, then draw a Matthews. The Hoyt has a hump and then goes into a valley. The Matthews is far more linear. What you feel in your shoulder is basically what the arrow feels in reverse. The Matthews slowly dumps energy into the arrow, whereas the Hoyt dumps all of its energy at the very end of the cam's rotation. Think of the arrow like a shock on your truck. In each of these cases, your truck just hit a very different kind of bump.

Not saying that arrow spine is to blame here, but it's something to look out for especially on the new Hoyts where the top end of each of the modules seems to be an energy sweet spot. Couple that with the fact that the Hoyt dumps energy into the arrow all at once and I think there could be a case for the bow wanting a stiffer arrow than you would normally run.

That has been an issue for a while. It's why a hoyt turbo took a stiffer arrow than an ultra. Also why Easton and a few others give an ibo fps reference on their charts.


Years ago carbon express had a series of questions that you filled in to have a "corrected" draw weight. I had a bow that was 73# but the corrected weight according to cx was 91 or 92#

 

[N2TRKYS]

So I've had this theory rattling around in my head (which could explain what we're seeing here) that all spine charts are total BS.

Here's why... modern bows transfer their energy into the arrow in very, very different ways. Draw a Hoyt, then draw a Matthews. The Hoyt has a hump and then goes into a valley. The Matthews is far more linear. What you feel in your shoulder is basically what the arrow feels in reverse. The Matthews slowly dumps energy into the arrow, whereas the Hoyt dumps all of its energy at the very end of the cam's rotation. Think of the arrow like a shock on your truck. In each of these cases, your truck just hit a very different kind of bump.

Not saying that arrow spine is to blame here, but it's something to look out for especially on the new Hoyts where the top end of each of the modules seems to be an energy sweet spot. Couple that with the fact that the Hoyt dumps energy into the arrow all at once and I think there could be a case for the bow wanting a stiffer arrow than you would normally run.

The Mathews I used had way more dump than the Hoyt I have now.

I haven’t noticed any difficulty in picking arrows off of spine charts, though.

 

[Arctic Hunter]

Not sure if anyone is following this anymore but here is what I ended up with after using the Lancaster shim kit. One issue I think was screwing me up was not nock tuning. Whoever told me that you have to still nock tune Axis arrows was right.

Nice. I’ve found nock tuning effects any brand of arrows I shoot. Usually it really makes a difference with bare shafts. I can even see quite a difference on arrows that are pretty consistent on a spine tester. I’ll at least try it before I start moving stuff.

My ventum 33 seems to be shooting pretty well now.

 

[Zac]

With all the trouble this bow has given, would you buy it again? Or would you get something else?

You know I almost bought the Elite because it had all of that adjustability. I bought the Hoyt for sentimental reasons mostly. I use to live in Utah and alot of the people I really respect have ties to that company. I do really enjoy figuring out these types of problems. However some days I really wish that I could just turn an allen key instead of fidgeting around with a dental tool and .001 shims. I do shoot the bow very well compared to the VXR last year. I think if I put something in the dirt with it I will be very happy to be wearing a Hoyt hat. However I would not reccomend it unless, someone has a press and some pretty extensive tuning knowledge. I tell my buddies to buy the Bowtech or Elite.

 

[N2TRKYS]

You know I almost bought the Elite because it had all of that adjustability. I bought the Hoyt for sentimental reasons mostly. I use to live in Utah and alot of the people I really respect have ties to that company. I do really enjoy figuring out these types of problems. However some days I really wish that I could just turn an allen key instead of fidgeting around with a dental tool and .001 shims. I do shoot the bow very well compared to the VXR last year. I think if I put something in the dirt with it I will be very happy to be wearing a Hoyt hat. However I would not reccomend it unless, someone has a press and some pretty extensive tuning knowledge. I tell my buddies to buy the Bowtech or Elite.

Thanks for the reply. I’ve got the itch for a new bow and it’s between Mathews and Hoyt. I shot a MQ1 for well over a decade and currently year 8 with my Hoyt Carbon Element.

Sorry that you had issues with yours, but am glad that you posted about it.

I’m not much of a tinkerer. Lol. I like to find what works for me and stick with it.