Hunting arrow build

[SDHunter44]

Just got a new pse mach 1 and am looking to have some new arrows put together for it. I primarily hunt whitetail, and am starting to hunt mule deer every year as well, I want to get into elk but don't have plans as of now. (I know some say you can have a do it all arrow and some say you cant). I hunt in South Dakota and the wind is almost always ripping here, which brings me to my first question. is there any studies that prove small or micro diameter arrows are better in wind drift situations? I do shoot fixed blade broad heads and am looking at 4 long low profile fletching's. From some research I have done it sounds like a 420-470 grain arrow is a good sweet spot between speed and weight. The bow is 70# and I have a 28" draw. Some posts I have read or seen with similar bows looks to be that would be about 285 fps for 420 grain and 275 FPS for a 470 grain.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

I haven't seen any empirical studies attempting to quantify the magnitude of the effect, but the physics are well understood: less surface area = less wind drift. However, I personally think that A) broadhead and fletching size have a greater impact on wind drift than arrow diameter and B) inaccuracy due to wind is caused more by increased difficulty in holding on target pre-shot than by the arrow being blown off course during flight. For those reasons (plus better component availability/variety), I favor "standard" diameter (.244-.246" ID) arrows.

I'd say you're pretty close on your speed expectations. PSE's claimed IBO speed for the Mach 1 is 324-332 fps. Not sure why it's a range instead of a single number, but using the high end and shaving off 20 fps for your draw length being 2" below IBO DL predicts 312 fps with a 350 gn arrow (75.7 ft-lbs KE). Holding KE constant (it should rise slightly with increasing arrow weight but a constant KE assumption will get you close) and solving for speed yields: 285 fps for a 420 gn arrow and 269 fps for 470 gn.

 

[SDHunter44]

I haven't seen any empirical studies attempting to quantify the magnitude of the effect, but the physics are well understood: less surface area = less wind drift. However, I personally think that A) broadhead and fletching size have a greater impact on wind drift than arrow diameter and B) inaccuracy due to wind is caused more by increased difficulty in holding on target pre-shot than by the arrow being blown off course during flight. For those reasons (plus better component availability/variety), I favor "standard" diameter (.244-.246" ID) arrows.

I'd say you're pretty close on your speed expectations. PSE's claimed IBO speed for the Mach 1 is 324-332 fps. Not sure why it's a range instead of a single number, but using the high end and shaving off 20 fps for your draw length being 2" below IBO DL predicts 312 fps with a 350 gn arrow (75.7 ft-lbs KE). Holding KE constant (it should rise slightly with increasing arrow weight but a constant KE assumption will get you close) and solving for speed yields: 285 fps for a 420 gn arrow and 269 fps for 470 gn.

I have also read that too fast can also be hard to tune. What’s a sweet spot of weight to speed?


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[Mighty Mouse]

I have also read that too fast can also be hard to tune. What’s a sweet spot of weight to speed?

I've heard several bowhunters much more experienced/accomplished than me say they target 280 fps for ease of tuning with still good speed. I personally prefer to shoot mid-500 gn arrows, which gives me around 260 fps at 70# and 28.5". There's no definite sweet spot, just a continuous trade-off between the greater penetration potential of a heavier/slower arrow and the flatter trajectory of a lighter/faster arrow. I think you're on the right track with a mid-400 gn arrow for deer. If/when you hunt elk, you may want to consider adding another 50-100 gn.

 

[roadrunner]

450 grains and don't waste your time on KE. It's irrelevant.

 

[SDHunter44]

Ya Im using a trial on some software and way over thinking it for sure but am kinda settling between the Easton 5mm axis and the black eagle rampage, but would have to add some insert weight to the black eagle. It’s splitting hairs as this software breaks it down but the black eagles seem to fall better into the good zone, the eastons fall a little off each side to stiff or weak between the 300 and 340 spine. Easton is an overall heavier arrow too.


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[Truck24hr]

In your situation, a quality micro-diameter arrow in the 470-500 gr range would be my choice. Should be an easy to tune setup. Whitetail and mulies I'd run any quality expandable, definitely COC for elk though.

 

[Marble]

Ya Im using a trial on some software and way over thinking it for sure but am kinda settling between the Easton 5mm axis and the black eagle rampage, but would have to add some insert weight to the black eagle. It’s splitting hairs as this software breaks it down but the black eagles seem to fall better into the good zone, the eastons fall a little off each side to stiff or weak between the 300 and 340 spine. Easton is an overall heavier arrow too.


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I've shot the easton for a long time. You'll be happy with it. Don't worry too much about FOC or overall weight too much. At 28-29 " you'll be really close to mid 400s. If you are on the edge of spine, go stiffer. IME it makes for tunning a broadhead a little easier.

Then stop worrying about your arrow and focus on practice and shot process.

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[dtrkyman]

Tim Gillingham has a great video for hunting shafts, basically he says unless you are shooting regularly past 70 yards micros are not much advantage, he also states they are more critical tuning wise.

Maybe search youtube and you can find the video.

I like 450-500 grain arrows.

The most important factor for shooting broadheads is a perfectly straight arrow and components, no wobble anywhere! Otherwise you may be chasing your tail if you have a bad arrow or 2.

It is an endless rabbit hole, I like putting my own together and do a step by step process, spin full length arrows and cut off the bad end or ends, yes sometimes you need to cut both ends to get the best shaft to start. I like to shoot all of them bare shaft and if you get a flier you can typically rotate the nock and bring in into the x.

It can be tedious but you get a really good arrow that you have confidence in, I number all of them.

Look into it on youtube, Gillingham is a wealth of arrow knowledge!

 

[sneaky]

I haven't seen any empirical studies attempting to quantify the magnitude of the effect, but the physics are well understood: less surface area = less wind drift. However, I personally think that A) broadhead and fletching size have a greater impact on wind drift than arrow diameter and B) inaccuracy due to wind is caused more by increased difficulty in holding on target pre-shot than by the arrow being blown off course during flight. For those reasons (plus better component availability/variety), I favor "standard" diameter (.244-.246" ID) arrows.

I'd say you're pretty close on your speed expectations. PSE's claimed IBO speed for the Mach 1 is 324-332 fps. Not sure why it's a range instead of a single number, but using the high end and shaving off 20 fps for your draw length being 2" below IBO DL predicts 312 fps with a 350 gn arrow (75.7 ft-lbs KE). Holding KE constant (it should rise slightly with increasing arrow weight but a constant KE assumption will get you close) and solving for speed yields: 285 fps for a 420 gn arrow and 269 fps for 470 gn.

It's a range because there are different modules available for the Evolve cam, from high letoff to low letoff fast mods. It's also a little more realistic than the inflated IBO numbers that most manufacturers throw out there. They shoot theirs in a vacuum chamber I think to reach some of their claimed speeds. The Evolve cam system is also an extremely efficient cam with heavier arrows. I think the OP will be happy with the speeds he sees with the heavier builds.

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[npro04]

My specs are close to yours in draw weight and length. I’m ended up right around 478-480 finished weight and that puts me in the 270-278 fps range out of my turbo. I went through this struggle myself between light and fast and heavy and massive foc and all of it. Lots of money and time playing with all the setups. Knowing what I know now I should have just listened to everyone on here instead of trying to reinvent the wheel. Anything 450+ grains and 260-280 fps. I’d push as heavy of an arrow as you can that gets you in that speed range. Over 280fps can become a pain to tune fixed blades but some people seem to have the special sauce to make it work. I’m running gold tip shafts spun and cut for straightness. Three fletch max stealth’s. 100grains up front between insert and weight. 125gr magnus buzzcuts. Works well for me but like most will say 450+ grains in the 260-280fps neighborhood with a fixed blade is a pretty good do all arrow.

 

[SDHunter44]

This is what I am currently thinking. The black eagle seemed to have decent gpi to get me at around the weight I have been suggested by a few and still have good speed. It’s a little on the stuff side should I take the arrow length up to 29 to bring the stiffness down a bit or will the cons outweigh the pros?


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[sneaky]

This is what I am currently thinking. The black eagle seemed to have decent gpi to get me at around the weight I have been suggested by a few and still have good speed. It’s a little on the stuff side should I take the arrow length up to 29 to bring the stiffness down a bit or will the cons outweigh the pros?


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Those calculators are suggestions. Don't take that as gospel. They'll be close, but there's a myriad of factors that'll influence how your bow tunes.

Also, have you MEASURED your bow's actual specs? Confirmed DL, DW, A-2-A, BH? Input everything that's on your string? It all plays a role.

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[heiser]

Look at X-impacts or deep impacts if you want to go heavier. Excellent in the wind.

 

[Beendare]

Delete

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[SDHunter44]

IME, fletching is a bigger factor in wind drift than shaft diameter.

Yes diameter plays a part but its miniscule.

All of the expereinced bowhunters I know are in the 450-500gr range, a good middle ground.….and none could tell you their FOC.

If you tune the arrow to the bow ( search BH tuning) you don’t need a lot of fletching, which then helps with wind drift.

I shot the skinny shafts for many years when sponsored and getting them for free. I think there are many more disadvantages to them over any wind advantage. I do prefer the 5mm shafts.

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This is kinda the thinking I ordered my arrows off of, seems to be the general consensus of non fad chasers, any input on speed? When an arrow is going a little too fast to tune easily?


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[sneaky]

This is kinda the thinking I ordered my arrows off of, seems to be the general consensus of non fad chasers, any input on speed? When an arrow is going a little too fast to tune easily?


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An arrow is going too fast to tune easily when your bow is out of tune, or your form is off. A well tuned bow and a shooter wth good form can get an arrow to fly right at high speeds. Some broadheads are harder to do that with because of their size, but the speed of the bow isn't the issue, the broadhead is. That's why all of the newer heads are smaller and don't catch as much wind as the old Thunderhead style heads. Mechs make speed a moot point. Saying all that it comes down to this, when you build an appropriately weighted hunting arrow you aren't going to be shooting high speed anyways unless you are rocking monster poundage and a long draw length.

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[Beendare]

This is kinda the thinking I ordered my arrows off of, seems to be the general consensus of non fad chasers, any input on speed? When an arrow is going a little too fast to tune easily?


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Sneakys right…any arrow can be tuned.

It does get incrementally harder over about 300 fps.…and it could be said that slower arrows are easier to tune. I know my old compound unlimited 3d setups shooting 310 fps were more critical of form and tune.

Anything under about 285fps should be fairly easy to tune.

The funny thing is we dissect these things and most guys shooting avg bowhunting shot distances cant tell the difference with +/- 25 grains of arrow weight. Where you notice the extra arrow weight is on longer shots.

So if you want a little better trajectory drop 50gr but if you want a quieter bow and better penetration bump it up 50 gr.

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