Idaho- livestock proposal

Pwells10

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
380
Hey everyone, myself and another noteable organization I will announce at a later date will be writing up a proposal to try and move the date of grazing into July and August instead of september, where many of you hunt, spend many amounts of time and money to either travel or use vacation for this great time of year. I'm sure many have had frustrating experiences with livestock and the sheepherders in general.

Personally, i normally can get away from the sheep and cows, minus a few times this year. Being 2 miles in and meeting sheep up on top of a ridge wasn't the greatest feeling. Or heading into an elk bugling and running into cattle halfway between the bull and us, sending the cattle running up to the bull.

I will share a few experiences from this season as well as last season wuth them. From myself or other hunters i have talked with.

I'm not one to whine if you will, they serve their purpose, but why not earlier?

Last season we had a herder getting "friendly" with his horse. Unfortunately we have trail cam evidence of this. A group from Nevada that have been coming for the last 10 years will not be coming anymore due to the livestock issue. This season, intentionally running sheep through a guys stand, being 78 he isnt able to get out in the trees like most of us. How I know this was intentional, the 78 year old confronted him. Herder was unaware he was fluent in Euskara. Having sheep every year ran through multiple camp grounds. Multiple livestock bags left in the mountains on the ground. Cutting "green" trees down to fix corals. Herders park their wagon on top of other camp/hunters. While some of us have to bring their dogs along, one hunter had to break up a dog fight between his dog and a pyrenees, getting bit in the process. Not to mention the multiple sheep left behind, or dead/sick that will bring predators into camp or stir away elk or deer away from the ones that hunt stands or sit water.

What we are looking for are experiences/frustrations in written form emailed to me. Also, any organizations that would like to support this, please feel free to email me as well.

Put the subject as "livestock proposal"

[email protected]

Thanks everyone.

If this is somewhat not allowed please notify myself and i will delete.
 
OP
Pwells10

Pwells10

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
380
I understand and am empathetic towards those issues, however, I'm a strong supporter of the livestock industry. Losing 30+ days of summer grazing would be devastating to most ranchers.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
Understand. And I'm also a supporter of our farmers and livestock. But if they can run them earlier, everyone might win. They are there from August 31st and are supposed to get out by the 20th. If we can change these dates to an earlier time, I think everyone could potentially be happy. I'd even be willimg to,give them all of July and August.
 

jmav58

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
371
Location
MT
How would this benefit the rancher? And why would you give them 2 full months to graze? Sheep graze stuff to the ground if given the chance, 2 months would all but guarantee that happening. Grazing it to nothing in July and August would be tough on those native grasses, not having moisture for proper regrowth and then it could go into fall without enough growth to help get it through the winter, they'd be doing more harm than good.
 
OP
Pwells10

Pwells10

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
380
How would this benefit the rancher? And why would you give them 2 full months to graze? Sheep graze stuff to the ground if given the chance, 2 months would all but guarantee that happening. Grazing it to nothing in July and August would be tough on those native grasses, not having moisture for proper regrowth and then it could go into fall without enough growth to help get it through the winter, they'd be doing more harm than good.
It was more of a joke on the 2 month comment. They decimate every piece they touch. August would help everyone out in my eyes. Getting them in before the hunters roll in, would cut the grass down, potentially haulting any threat of fires happening from hunters vehicles/campfires around the camps and shoulders of the roads in. September will usually bring in more moisture from rain and short snow storms. In August it'll be a dry heat and little rain. This will also give the predators a chance to clean up the sick and dead sheep. Clearing potential run ins with humans. The elk and deer will have a chance to settle down at this point as well. Wont run them up into the high ground, with potential snow coming in September and low temps, it'll give the young an extra chance to get more weight on to help survive the winter.
 
OP
Pwells10

Pwells10

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
380
Itll also benefit the rancher by getting them out early, cows and sheep will stick closer to water in the hot month (should anyways) lowering the amount of left behind livestock. One of their dogs was ran over this year from the amount of traffic in.
 

wysongdog

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2016
Messages
177
Understand. And I'm also a supporter of our farmers and livestock. But if they can run them earlier, everyone might win. They are there from August 31st and are supposed to get out by the 20th. If we can change these dates to an earlier time, I think everyone could potentially be happy. I'd even be willimg to,give them all of July and August.
You say they can run earlier? How many cows do you run? I can understand your frustration but having rancher friends and family you really don’t have a clue what you are asking.
 
OP
Pwells10

Pwells10

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2018
Messages
380
You say they can run earlier? How many cows do you run? I can understand your frustration but having rancher friends and family you really don’t have a clue what you are asking.

I understand what you're saying. Unfortunately, youve assumed. My brother inlaw runs a ranch and so does his family. Ive been around many friends growing up and on their ranches. I've ran it by him. He has his concerns, but also he agrees that there would be many upsides to it.

To be 100% honest, the cattle are the least of most concerns. The sheep in my experience atleast, do more damage and frustrations.
 

Poser

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
3,228
Location
Durango CO
Aside from the aesthetic impact of cattle shit, I don’t really care or have any problem with cows. Sheep, on the other hand, suck. Mow those maggots down, import 100% of what we need from New Zealand and call it day. Their impact on the land and to user groups is significant and they directly threaten wild sheep.
 

WeiserBucks

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2019
Messages
421
The ranchers don't care about dates as it is, some of the public land I hunt has hundreds of cattle on it into November.
 

mcr-85

Senior Member
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
605
Location
Southern Utah
Aside from the aesthetic impact of cattle shit, I don’t really care or have any problem with cows. Sheep, on the other hand, suck. Mow those maggots down, import 100% of what we need from New Zealand and call it day. Their impact on the land and to user groups is significant and they directly threaten wild sheep.
So what do you tell the sheep ranchers to do for a living? Move to New Zealand? I understand the frustration. I don't like running into sheep on a hunt anymore than the next guy. I don't like hunting country thats been fed off on drought years either. But I understand that the ranchers have to make a living and they buy the permits for the feed on the same grounds we like to hunt.
 

Poser

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
3,228
Location
Durango CO
So what do you tell the sheep ranchers to do for a living? Move to New Zealand? I understand the frustration. I don't like running into sheep on a hunt anymore than the next guy. I don't like hunting country thats been fed off on drought years either. But I understand that the ranchers have to make a living and they buy the permits for the feed on the same grounds we like to hunt.

People find themselves in archaic lines of work all of the time. Imagine being a family that has owned a newspaper for 130 years, for example. What do you tell them? I would be very interested to see the financials on raising sheep in the US. What’s the contribution for both wool and meat? I’m gonna guess it’s at a minimum very small if not borderline insignificant. If every sheep farmer in the US ceased production, would anything change? Does what they contribute to the market offset the impact they have on the land and user groups? It’s a significant amount of impact for 1 family + a tiny handful of employees from South America to make a living and im guessing the profit margins are so slim they barley justify existence and that justification is hinged on public land grazing rights that were levied in a time when there was basically 0 high country recreation and game populations were extremely low. Ideals change: you likley don’t get a newspaper delivered to your door either.
 

mcr-85

Senior Member
Joined
May 28, 2014
Messages
605
Location
Southern Utah
People find themselves in archaic lines of work all of the time. Imagine being a family that has owned a newspaper for 130 years, for example. What do you tell them? I would be very interested to see the financials on raising sheep in the US. What’s the contribution for both wool and meat? I’m gonna guess it’s at a minimum very small if not borderline insignificant. If every sheep farmer in the US ceased production, would anything change? Does what they contribute to the market offset the impact they have on the land and user groups? It’s a significant amount of impact for 1 family + a tiny handful of employees from South America to make a living and im guessing the profit margins are so slim they barley justify existence and that justification is hinged on public land grazing rights that were levied in a time when there was basically 0 high country recreation and game populations were extremely low. Ideals change: you likley don’t get a newspaper delivered to your door either.
So because you deem it insignificant they need to find a new line of work and a new way to put food on the table for their family? You aren't just talking about 1 family plus some South American's. You are talking about wanting to put a stop to a whole bunch of families way of life because it is an inconvenience to you while you are out hunting. That is pretty selfish in my eyes.
 

LONE HUNTER

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2018
Messages
329
Research I’ve read suggests grazing done correctly will benefit mule deer. Dennis Austin’s opinion not mine. I would want to know real sciences opinion on the matter before jumping on such a band wagon.
 

realunlucky

Super Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2013
Messages
9,953
Location
Eastern Utah
So because you deem it insignificant they need to find a new line of work and a new way to put food on the table for their family? You aren't just talking about 1 family plus some South American's. You are talking about wanting to put a stop to a whole bunch of families way of life because it is an inconvenience to you while you are out hunting. That is pretty selfish in my eyes.
Well the allotment fees paid don't even cover half the administrative costs of the grazing program that might seem a bit selfish for those that benefit without paying thier FAIR share.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk
 

Poser

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
3,228
Location
Durango CO
So because you deem it insignificant they need to find a new line of work and a new way to put food on the table for their family? You aren't just talking about 1 family plus some South American's. You are talking about wanting to put a stop to a whole bunch of families way of life because it is an inconvenience to you while you are out hunting. That is pretty selfish in my eyes.

We’re speaking hypothetically here. My idealistic desires for public land free of goddamned, disease spreading land maggots, has no application in reality of destroying anyone’s livelihood. So, worry not, high alpine tundra will continue to be overgrazed and over shat upon, big horn populations will continue to be euthanized, Great Pyrenees will continue to be randomly aggressive towards an ever increasing recreational user groups and I’ll continue to look upon the sheep with fantasies of mowing them down Tommy gun style, but nothing will change anytime soon.
 
Top