Idaho Mule Deer Draw

Extrapale

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Deer in every western state are in poor shape
Like it or not anterless harvest is a good thing
It helps balance the herds antlerless harvest is a way to keep things in check
Not buying that for one second. If buck ratios are low and overall population is low, shoot fewer bucks. Don't shoot does in a herd that is already below population objectives to adjust buck ratios.

You cannot shoot your way to more deer.

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WeiserBucks

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Weiser, ID
Not buying that for one second. If buck ratios are low and overall population is low, shoot fewer bucks. Don't shoot does in a herd that is already below population objectives to adjust buck ratios.

You cannot shoot your way to more deer.

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This guy gets it.
 

mossyoak52

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Not buying that for one second. If buck ratios are low and overall population is low, shoot fewer bucks. Don't shoot does in a herd that is already below population objectives to adjust buck ratios.
You cannot shoot your way to more deer.

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You don't have to buy it, but that's exactly why antlless harvest takes place it's used to keep
Overall numbers balanced not just more bucks They manage for opportunity NOT quality
 

EdP

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I don't know whether Weiserbucks is right or not. On the surface it makes sense but the issue may be more complex. One expert in the field says the buck to doe ratio is important to keep the rut short so the birthing period is short. That limits fawn predation compared with an extended birthing period from a long rut due to too few bucks. If the overall population is low vs target but the buck to doe ratio is very low, perhaps taking some does instead of young bucks makes sense if it increases recruitment enough. Different strategies may make more sense in different situations. If predation is not a significant factor in reducing recruitment, I would think Weiserbucks is correct. In other situations, perhaps not.
 

EdP

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If you listen to biologists, they'll tell you that the fastest and most effective way to reduce any game species total population is to kill females.
Yes, but what is the most effective way to increase the population? When it is socially unacceptable to stop all deer hunting, is allowing bucks to be killed instead of does ALWAYS the best way to increase the population? I listened to a biologist that thought otherwise. I am not a wildlife biologist and don't know the right answer, but the points he made make sense to me for a particular set of circumstances.
 

WeiserBucks

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You're not wrong, every circumstance is different and should be managed according to the needs of the area. Unfortunately many F&G departments manage for income.
 

sneaky

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Not buying that for one second. If buck ratios are low and overall population is low, shoot fewer bucks. Don't shoot does in a herd that is already below population objectives to adjust buck ratios.

You cannot shoot your way to more deer.

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In drought years does complete for the same resources as everything else. You have to have a balanced approach to herd management. You can't just leave does alone and expect habitat to miraculously increase if they are mowing it down as fast as it grows. Deer herds in the west are in trouble whether we shoot does or not.
 

sneaky

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If you listen to biologists, they'll tell you that the fastest and most effective way to reduce any game species total population is to kill females.
They're lying. The fastest way to reduce any game species is to sell land to a developer who has a waiting list of people waiting for him to build homes on the winter range he just bought and bulldozed. Boise is exhibit A
 

indyfan406

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Nov 12, 2020
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Idaho
They're lying. The fastest way to reduce any game species is to sell land to a developer who has a waiting list of people waiting for him to build homes on the winter range he just bought and bulldozed. Boise is exhibit A
Its getting ridiculous. Driving that highway 55 every now and then to Horshoebend just to see they’ve cleared out another 500 acres for a new subdivision hurts my soul man. Not to mention I hear they’re going to have huge sewage problems around there
 

Extrapale

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Not buying that for one second. If buck ratios are low and overall population is low, shoot fewer bucks. Don't shoot does in a herd that is already below population objectives to adjust buck ratios.

You don't have to buy it, but that's exactly why antlless harvest takes place it's used to keep
Overall numbers balanced not just more bucks They manage for opportunity NOT quality
Nope, it's a way for poorly managed states to try to hide their mistakes at the cost of the resource. Also, keeps that tag money rolling in.

Oregon shot does by the 1000s for years, and now continue to try and shoot their way out of a hole.

You cannot shoot your way to more deer.

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Extrapale

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In drought years does complete for the same resources as everything else. You have to have a balanced approach to herd management. You can't just leave does alone and expect habitat to miraculously increase if they are mowing it down as fast as it grows. Deer herds in the west are in trouble whether we shoot does or not.
What area has more Mule Deer than the habitat can support. Colorado that had 600000+ 15 years ago but now has 400000?

Oregon that had 300000+ 30 years ago but now has less than half that?

I am all for a balanced herd with healthy buck to doe ratios. I do not accept the answer to herds that are under population objective is to shoot more does.

Kill some predators, protect deer along migration corridors, do habitat projects, stop harassing deer year round, let a few bucks live to maturity, etc.

You cannot shoot your way to more deer.


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mossyoak52

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Aww
What area has more Mule Deer than the habitat can support. Colorado that had 600000+ 15 years ago but now has 400000?

Oregon that had 300000+ 30 years ago but now has less than half that?

I am all for a balanced herd with healthy buck to doe ratios. I do not accept the answer to herds that are under population objective is to shoot more does.

Kill some predators, protect deer along migration corridors, do habitat projects, stop harassing deer year round, let a few bucks live to maturity, etc.

You cannot shoot your way to more deer.


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30 yrs ago there was a lot more HABITAT
and a lot less humans less houses ,development .
What state allows deer hunting year round ?

You cannot shoot your way to more deer.

Correct so killing more predators won't
Bring the herds back to what they were 30 yrs ago ,the HABITAT just isn't there
We will never be the herds from 30 yrs ago
 

Andrew12gauge

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May 17, 2015
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Its getting ridiculous. Driving that highway 55 every now and then to Horshoebend just to see they’ve cleared out another 500 acres for a new subdivision hurts my soul man. Not to mention I hear they’re going to have huge sewage problems around there

And avimor owns most of the land all the way up and over that hill.


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BGnight

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May 9, 2021
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They're lying. The fastest way to reduce any game species is to sell land to a developer who has a waiting list of people waiting for him to build homes on the winter range he just bought and bulldozed. Boise is exhibit A
It's all moot. Once the good 'ol US of A collapses and inevitably goes the way of the former USSR people will be hunting for food without any gov't oversight. I expect deer populations to take a major hit because does and forkies will be the first one's to go.
 
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