Idaho Selkirk Caribou removal

[a_noob_hunter]

Wondered if anyone else kept up with the Selkirk herd in Northern Idaho. Just checked today and saw an article from earlier this year on that herd. No more Caribou in the lower 48. They pulled the last cow this winter. Kinda sad but not much to be done. Supposedly the Canadians are gonna re-establish a herd in the future but won't really believe it till it's done. Woulda loved to hunt some 'bou in the lower 48

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[SWOHTR]

I think they became functionally extinct two years ago, but I’m no authority on it.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

BC has a draft plan for woodland caribou recovery. The province has made and agreement with the gov't of Canada to work together on a plan. The alternative was the federal gov't stepping in with the Species At Risk Act and take over the whole project with some potentially heavy handed steps (large swaths of land closed, etc.), similar to the ESA in the US.

It's still in the infancy of planning, but as a stakeholder just across the border form you in ID, I'm going to ensure that recovery plans go ahead with the introduction of herds in the south Selkirks. the recent recovery efforts were pathetic, and pandered too much to other user groups without the habitat and caribou at the heart of the plans. This time it should be different.

The plan for the south herd is to have captive breeding (not maternal pens) in Revelstoke and build a herd for introduction at some good numbers. Perhaps some predator and alternate prey measures will take place during that time. Critical habitat (sub-alpine old growth) will remain protected, and hopefully they will increase the these protected areas.

It's a hot button topic in BC and I don't think we're going to let a large mammal species become extirpated or extinct without sinking some real time money and effort into.

Caribou need three things to survive: habitat, habitat, and habitat.

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/caribou/section11agreement/

As for hunting in the lower 48, maybe a wish for your grandkids, but you never know. I think manageable populations will be established, but they will have so much stacked against them, hunting might be tough to justify, they are a very sensitive niche species. I think having them back on the landscape would be the best we can hope for right now.

 

[Ross]

The wolves ate up this expensive investment

 

[a_noob_hunter]

BC has a draft plan for woodland caribou recovery. The province has made and agreement with the gov't of Canada to work together on a plan. The alternative was the federal gov't stepping in with the Species At Risk Act and take over the whole project with some potentially heavy handed steps (large swaths of land closed, etc.), similar to the ESA in the US.

It's still in the infancy of planning, but as a stakeholder just across the border form you in ID, I'm going to ensure that recovery plans go ahead with the introduction of herds in the south Selkirks. the recent recovery efforts were pathetic, and pandered too much to other user groups without the habitat and caribou at the heart of the plans. This time it should be different.

The plan for the south herd is to have captive breeding (not maternal pens) in Revelstoke and build a herd for introduction at some good numbers. Perhaps some predator and alternate prey measures will take place during that time. Critical habitat (sub-alpine old growth) will remain protected, and hopefully they will increase the these protected areas.

It's a hot button topic in BC and I don't think we're going to let a large mammal species become extirpated or extinct without sinking some real time money and effort into.

Caribou need three things to survive: habitat, habitat, and habitat.

https://engage.gov.bc.ca/caribou/section11agreement/

As for hunting in the lower 48, maybe a wish for your grandkids, but you never know. I think manageable populations will be established, but they will have so much stacked against them, hunting might be tough to justify, they are a very sensitive niche species. I think having them back on the landscape would be the best we can hope for right now.

Hopefully it'll work but to be honest I don't have a ton of faith in the Canadian gov. After seeing what's happening with the griz and other predators in BC im only hoping they make sensible moves from here on out and don't damaging too many ungulate populations.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[DAOutfitters208]

The wolves ate up this expensive investment

Give a listen to the Meateater Podcast episode 42. The biologist/trapper Bart George that worked on the recovery project in the Selkirks in northern Washington and Idaho discusses it in depth
Its a complex problem, one that can't be solved by simply saying the wolves got em all. Cougars had a big impact as well as habitat changes.

 

[LongWayAround]

Send her to Colorado! Maybe it will keep the wolves away for a while.

 

[a_noob_hunter]

Give a listen to the Meateater Podcast episode 42. The biologist/trapper Bart George that worked on the recovery project in the Selkirks in northern Washington and Idaho discusses it in depth
Its a complex problem, one that can't be solved by simply saying the wolves got em all. Cougars had a big impact as well as habitat changes.

I wondered if wolves really affected them or not. I kinda wanted to be able to blame the wolves but from what I've researched the 'bou can stay on top of the snow and reach up to lower hanging branches for their food. I know elk have to plow through snow and wolves run on top. But the cougars are s big problem for them. They had 3 Caribou last year, one was got by a cougar, one the tracker stopped working, and the last was captured

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[DAOutfitters208]

I wondered if wolves really affected them or not. I kinda wanted to be able to blame the wolves but from what I've researched the 'bou can stay on top of the snow and reach up to lower hanging branches for their food. I know elk have to plow through snow and wolves run on top. But the cougars are s big problem for them. They had 3 Caribou last year, one was got by a cougar, one the tracker stopped working, and the last was captured

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

I am sure they have affected them, but nearly as much as cougars. The herd was struggling long before wolves were reintroduced.

 

[Ross]

I remember all the expense and great info on the caribou in the 80s as I recall there were about 50 of them...yes cats and mortality affected them but they managed and hung on.....then you bring wolves around and now they are gone

 

[theleo91386]

I am sure they have affected them, but nearly as much as cougars. The herd was struggling long before wolves were reintroduced.

Cougars will always be a problem in this situation until you can convince the King County urbanite in Washington that hunters using hounds is a critical tool for wildlife management. I'm not sure I ever see that happening.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

I remember all the expense and great info on the caribou in the 80s as I recall there were about 50 of them...yes cats and mortality affected them but they managed and hung on.....then you bring wolves around and now they are gone

Give it a listen and see if your theory is correct.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

FYI, wolves were not re-introduced into the south Selkirks, at least not in Canada, they have always been present. I don't know about what got done in N. Idaho. Populations have fluctuated, but they've never been extirpated from southern BC.

Wolves are just part of the equation and usually deal the final death blow along with cougars. Snowmobiles make hardpack tracks into caribou terrain where the wolves can access areas easier. Incoming prey, such as moose and whitetails, draw in packs of wolves and the caribou become collateral damage. Caribou also subsist on the lichen that grows on trees, typically old growth. Once cut down, this winter food source is not available, clear cuts do not benefit caribou like other ungulates. Caribou are also very sensitive. Cows can abort a pregnancy from the stress of a helicopter hovering above.

In east central BC they undertook a large wolf culling program which has helped stabilize some of the herds in the area, but with low wolf numbers, guess what, the moose and other ungulates move in, creating another problem, it's a balancing act that requires constant management. Unfortunately there is no playbook with mountain caribou recovery, hasn't been done, all they know if that what has happened int he past hasn't worked, and that's because of the lack of focus on habitat.

As for the Canadian gov't and no faith due to griz bear, it's two completely separate issues. One was a provincial gov't using emotion to win an election. BC is being held accountable with the section 11 agreement by the Federal gov't under SARA. Not to mention, BC is thought of as the hippy province, so I doubt we'll let the caribou go away without a fight. I'm sure Canada would be willing to give some animals from a stable northern herd to start you're own recovery process in ID/WA

 

[Mike7]

If I remember right (haven't listened to the mentioned podcast yet), it is pretty well documented that lions and wolves have caused direct mortality to those caribou. What I don't see mentioned much is the potential indirect mortality caused by wolves. How do you explain slowly increasing caribou numbers prior to 2009 when wolf populations in NE Washington & Northern Idaho exploded? That is around the same time that the forest service was steadily increasing road and snowmobile travel restrictions, so that would not seem to be the major causative factor for the subsequent caribou decline.

Wolves are not demons, but in a pack they are killing machines. And when they are not killing, they keep game on the move. Borderline habitat & tough winters + uncontrolled wolf numbers is not likely a good combination, and I don't think that you have to a wolf hater to believe that.

Historically wolves are just more important than caribou politically.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

FYI, wolves were not re-introduced into the south Selkirks, at least not in Canada, they have always been present. I don't know about what got done in N. Idaho. Populations have fluctuated, but they've never been extirpated from southern BC.

I am not sure if they migrated up to North Idaho and Washington from other packs that were reintroduced or if a pack was planted up there. Someone else may know the answer to that.

 

[Midwest.Bushlore]

It's sad to see them gone from Idaho. They're a unique caribou.

 

[Ross]

The last thing I will say about wolves on this thread and I find it so comical because they don’t eat grass and plants to survive. When I stop in at the id fish and game check last year I asked about the harvest through the two week season. Advised good and average. I asked what is average and what timeline for average. Advised the same as last couple of years. I advised been hunting here every year since 1980 and family since 1963 so I have a little more history than a couple of years. There were fewer hunters and a lot less elk taken than a decade ago. Asked about mortality well cougars are the main killer of elk and vegetation changes. This country is a jungle. Asked what is the biggest difference to a decade ago well there are more cats and data says they are killing the elk. never a word about the 4,5,6,7,8 who knows packs of wolves hunting 365 days a year. When you have 4 decades and 000s of days in these canyons I can look at them and just nod yeah cougars ok....no the wolves don’t eat them all but they have a dramatic impact on things and it is not good.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

If I remember right (haven't listened to the mentioned podcast yet), it is pretty well documented that lions and wolves have caused direct mortality to those caribou. What I don't see mentioned much is the potential indirect mortality caused by wolves. How do you explain slowly increasing caribou numbers prior to 2009 when wolf populations in NE Washington & Northern Idaho exploded? That is around the same time that the forest service was steadily increasing road and snowmobile travel restrictions, so that would not seem to be the major causative factor for the subsequent caribou decline.

Wolves are not demons, but in a pack they are killing machines. And when they are not killing, they keep game on the move. Borderline habitat & tough winters + uncontrolled wolf numbers is not likely a good combination, and I don't think that you have to a wolf hater to believe that.

Historically wolves are just more important than caribou politically.

He does a better job covering the history than I can, but that is precisely when the population took a decline. Two predators now that can and would hunt Caribou. Idaho was a little easier to manage the predators in, but Washington not so much. I believe this podcast is over a year old, so it sucks to hear them talk about what they need to save them, but to already know the end of the story.

 

[87TT]

If I had to see one specie go extinct, It would be the wolf not the caribou. Better for everyone except the wolf lovers. I don't care if I ever get to hunt caribou here in Idaho and probably wouldn't but would love to have them around.

 

[a_noob_hunter]

If I had to see one specie go extinct, It would be the wolf not the caribou. Better for everyone except the wolf lovers. I don't care if I ever get to hunt caribou here in Idaho and probably wouldn't but would love to have them around.

I wouldn't mind the wolves if they wouldn't have imported the timber wolves. Shoulda let the Mexican wolves back up if that's what was here originally. As far as hunting caribou I would be happy if I could ever see them in the wild. A dream hunt for would be a mountain or woodsland caribou. I doubt it will happen but just knowing that their natural range was in the lower 48 in Idaho was pretty awesome. Seems every time, especially with the predators, that emotions over facts then the entire ecosystem suffers. Little rabbit hole I found an article written about Vice on wolf hunting. It's so funny how biased these tree huggers are. If you want a good laugh and want to see what a made up wolf hunting story sounds like give this a read.

How to Kill a Wolf - An Undercover Report from the Idaho Coyote and Wolf Derby

I had come to the town of Salmon, Idaho—population 3,000—to enter as a contestant in the first annual Idaho Coyote and Wolf Derby. Over the course of two days in late December, several hundred hunters would compete to kill as many wolves and coyotes as...

www.google.com

Figured maybe some of these Idahoan natives can attest to these horrific derbys .

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk