Iron Will Titanium Collars Causing Arrow Wobble! Solutions??

[birkandbros]

Hi everyone,

I haven't been able to find any useful info out there regarding this topic, yet I'm sure I'm not the only one who has encountered this issue. I built some 300 spine Black Eagle Rampage arrows this past week and planned to run 10gr. Titanium Iron Will impact collars upfront. The gentlemen from South Shore Archery did an exceptional job as always and sent me (I would assume and pretty sure confirm) the correct-sized collars.

My arrows spin perfectly without the collars on and with a tight field point. The second I put on the collars, and tighten down with a point, the arrows wobble pretty bad. As someone that tries to make everything perfect, this is frustrating. The collars are pretty snug when placing them down the shaft, but there is some minor side-to-side play when they are on all the way (without a field point). I assume that is where the wobble is originating from considering this means that the collar is not perfectly centered on the full diameter of the shaft. I doubt that the collar needs to be squared at the top, but you all know better than me! Any solutions to this problem? I already have the IW SS HITs installed, and I guess if the collars keep acting like this, I'll be running tips straight on the shaft. Eh.

I look forward to hearing from you all!

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

Most likely issue is the end of shafts aren’t square. I would check that and then worst case epoxy the collars on to fill any gaps between collars and shaft. I have had 40+ IW collars and never had any issues if shaft is squared and I have the right size.

 

[birkandbros]

Most likely issue is the end of shafts aren’t square. I would check that and then worst case epoxy the collars on to fill any gaps between collars and shaft. I have had 40+ IW collars and never had any issues if shaft is squared and I have the right size.

Only thing is that South Shore laser squares all of their shafts and the arrows spin fine with a field point on, it's only when the collars are added that they begin to wobble... I've heard nothing but good things about IW so that's why I'm confused with what's going on. Thanks!

 

[ahlgringo]

I would def try and square the ends as suggested. Spinning true does not mean the ends are square when you run HITs. Easy enough potential solution. Would also re-confirm the od size of shaft and what collars you have.

 

[birkandbros]

I would def try and square the ends as suggested. Spinning true does not mean the ends are square when you run HITs. Easy enough potential solution.

Okay, I'll consider it! I'm worried about messing up the laser squaring that Southshore already did for me, maybe they forgot, lol?

 

[Kahuna]

Rampage 300 OD: 0.264"
Iron will "C" titanium collars ID: 0.269"
Difference is 0.005"

From Ironwill website: Note: Installing Impact Collars with HIT Insert Epoxy is optional but it does add strength and is recommended to fill the gap when the Impact Collar size is .002"-.003" per side larger than the arrow

Impact Collars – Six Pack — Iron Will Outfitters

These hardened stainless steel and grade 5 titanium Impact Collars greatly increase the strength of the end of your arrow for the ultimate in bone penetration. Swiss CNC machined in the USA in the hardened state for unmatched precision. Six sizes total for .204 (5mm) and .166 (4mm) shafts to be used

www.ironwilloutfitters.com

Tolerance is double the suggested limit for using without glue. You need to glue them on or buy the size smaller ("H" which is 0.001" too small) and sand the shafts.

@Bill V

 

[birkandbros]

Rampage 300 OD: 0.264"
Iron will "C" titanium collars ID: 0.269"
Difference is 0.005"

From Ironwill website: Note: Installing Impact Collars with HIT Insert Epoxy is optional but it does add strength and is recommended to fill the gap when the Impact Collar size is .002"-.003" per side larger than the arrow

Impact Collars – Six Pack — Iron Will Outfitters

These hardened stainless steel and grade 5 titanium Impact Collars greatly increase the strength of the end of your arrow for the ultimate in bone penetration. Swiss CNC machined in the USA in the hardened state for unmatched precision. Six sizes total for .204 (5mm) and .166 (4mm) shafts to be used

www.ironwilloutfitters.com

Tolerance is double the suggested limit for using without glue. You need to glue them on or buy the size smaller ("H" which are 0.001" too small) and sand the shafts.

@Bill V

Those are great points. I'm a little hesitant glueing the collars on at this stage because then it's permanent, maybe a hot melt wouldn't be a bad idea for testing this... I have reached out to IW and will wait and see what they recommend on Monday. Thanks!

 

[Kahuna]

Hotmelt and send it.

 

[Beendare]

Deleted

 

[Zac]

I would adjust the collar on the shaft until it spins true. Use a sharpie to make a vertical line down the collar and shaft. I would then hot melt that exact line geometry.

 

[MattB]

If things spin fine w/o the collars and then don’t with, it is not a squaring issue. I would contact IW and see what they will do for you.

You might play a bit w the tightness of the BH’s to see if you can find a spot they still spin well, but ultimately you need coencentricity but you do not need the collars.

 

[5MilesBack]

This is exactly why I don't use collars, they're just another component piece that has to be and fit perfectly for true arrow spin. I'm sure it's possible to get a set of arrows spinning true with collars, but I've found that with the right arrows and the right build process, I don't need collars. But with those Rampage's........ya, you might want them. There's always a trade-off with every decision we make with our archery equipment.

 

[birkandbros]

I would adjust the collar on the shaft until it spins true. Use a sharpie to make a vertical line down the collar and shaft. I would then hot melt that exact line geometry.

That sounds like a good idea! I'll give it a try, but I think that would assume that the problem is more of an uneven surface than (what I believe is the case) an uneven coverage of the arrow's diameter. It seems that using a good hot melt should fill up these spots to where everything would even up, but I'm still unsure if this would mean the collar would seat center of the shaft's diameter--which seems to be the problem.

Tinkering will tell.

 

[Beendare]

This is exactly why I don't use collars, they're just another component piece that has to be and fit perfectly for true arrow spin.

Delete

 

[birkandbros]

If things spin fine w/o the collars and them don’t with, it is not a squaring issue. I would contact IW and see what they will do for you.

You might play a bit w the tightness of the BH’s to see if you can find a spot they still spin well, but ultimately you need coencentricity but you do not need the collars.

That's the word I've been looking for! Concentric. Yes, That's what I think the problem is. I'm going to tinker and see what I can do this weekend with a couple and circle back with IW on Monday.

 

[Fullfan]

I had the same problem w my axis 300’s. Spin perfect without the collars, with the collars installed all kinds of wobble. Contacted IW and was told ya oh well. Returned them and was refunded about a 1/3. Pathetic if you ask me.

 

[CoStick]

I will say a broad head will spin true even if the shaft end isn’t square. A collar will not spin true if the shaft end is not trued.

 

[Kahuna]

Size B Iron Will collars fit my Axis 300s perfectly and spin like a top, no glue. I couldn't be happier with them.