Is it necessary to have an alpha glass spotter for bowhunting mule deer?

[JustinPNW]

Hey all! New member here. Been lurking for a while, but decided to pull the trigger and join the community.

My title says it all...

I'm a new hunter and just finished my first season of bowhunting mule deer in Eastern Washington (sage desert/shrubsteppe with coulees, hills, and ag fields mixed in - big open country). I made it through the season with Vortex Viper 10x42 binos and a Diamondback 16-48x65 spotter, but quickly realized through experience and playing with my buddy's gear that optics are the most important piece of gear for this species and habitat. If I can't spot a muley, then I'm not going to be able to stalk one.

Based on lots of advice here and on archerytalk, I decided to go for alpha glass on my binos and recently purchases a pair of Leica 10x42 Ultravid HD-Plus. Now I'm reconsidering my spotter. If I'm being honest, the Diamondback didn't get much use primarily because I struggled to find it as a better tool than my Viper binos at spotting bedded muleys in the sage due to its dark image that lacked clarity, contrast, and color trueness.

To that end, I'm in the market for a new spotter and want to hear from people with more experience than me as to whether the cost of alpha spotters (Swaro, Leica, Kowa) is really worth it over the mid-range (Razor, Sig Oscar, Athlon Cronus, Maven etc) for what I'm doing?

I fully realize that my proportion of time spent behind a spotter may change once I have good glass, but this season it only got used about 5-10% of the time. To be clear, I am not looking to spot trophies at a mile or two away. I am hunting to put meat in the freezer and while I will take a nice buck if the opportunity presents itself, I am just as happy to get a nice, big doe in antlerless GMU's. Also, I am not discounting that I may evolve to hunting more and different species that necessitate different glass, but for now, I am personally focused on mule deer, as there's just something about them that I really like...

Thanks ahead of time for the help!

 

[Hoodie]

My 2 cents: Not necessary.

The Razor/Cronus class will be plenty and a big step up from the Diamondback. Spotters can definitely be useful for picking up bedded deer during the midday hours, but often heat mirage limits the usefulness of higher magnification. Especially early season.

I'm not a big mule deer guy, but I would imagine lots of people with alpha class binos and spotters still spend 90% of their time behind the binos.

 

[Northpark]

I’m kinda in the same place as you especially in that I’m more of a meat hunter. My buddy has a maven spotter and binos. Big step up even from vipers which is what I have. I will be saving my $$ for a new maven spotter and binos this year. Just need to decide on which model spotter. I’m leaning towards the lightweight 12-27x version because the backpack hunt a lot but haven’t ruled out a bigger spotter just yet.

 

[JustinPNW]

My 2 cents: Not necessary.

The Razor/Cronus class will be plenty and a big step up from the Diamondback. Spotters can definitely be useful for picking up bedded deer during the midday hours, but often heat mirage limits the usefulness of higher magnification. Especially early season.

I'm not a big mule deer guy, but I would imagine lots of people with alpha class binos and spotters still spend 90% of their time behind the binos.

Thanks, bud. That's helpful insight both on the glass and the time spent behind spotters.

Given the narrow field of view on a spotter, I find it hard to do grid searching of sage patches and definitely prefer the binos on my tripod for that job. I have heard from locals who claim to spend half their time behind the spotter though, which is why I mentioned it.

 

[JustinPNW]

I’m kinda in the same place as you especially in that I’m more of a meat hunter. My buddy has a maven spotter and binos. Big step up even from vipers which is what I have. I will be saving my $$ for a new maven spotter and binos this year. Just need to decide on which model spotter. I’m leaning towards the lightweight 12-27x version because the backpack hunt a lot but haven’t ruled out a bigger spotter just yet.

I haven't gotten my hands on any Maven gear yet, but I hear they're amazing for the money. I had considered a lighter weight spotter, but I'm nervous that I'll want the higher mag and objective size. I am still open to it, but had been thinking of going in the opposite direction to an 85mm objective.

My hunting partner has a 65mm Gen2 Razor spotter and he even found it lacking for mag and light transmission on a couple of stalks that he talked me through where he was watching from 1000-1500 yards away LOS. Then again, our approach has been to get high, glass a deer, and then he stays behind behind the binos and spotter and then talks me in on the radio earpiece during my stalk.

 

[Newtosavage]

My 2 cents: Not necessary.

The Razor/Cronus class will be plenty and a big step up from the Diamondback. Spotters can definitely be useful for picking up bedded deer during the midday hours, but often heat mirage limits the usefulness of higher magnification. Especially early season.

I'm not a big mule deer guy, but I would imagine lots of people with alpha class binos and spotters still spend 90% of their time behind the binos.

Bingo. No amount of money will help you see through a mirage.

High quality spotter are only useful to trophy hunters IMO. I can see whether a mule deer is legal from over a half mile away with my 8x bins on a good mount. The good mount is the key there.

 

[Newtosavage]

Then again, our approach has been to get high, glass a deer, and then he stays behind behind the binos and spotter and then talks me in on the radio earpiece during my stalk.

Don't mean to be "that guy" but you might want to be sure that's legal where you hunt.

 

[kad11]

and then talks me in on the radio earpiece during my stalk.

I know nothing about WA hunting regs so you may be totally fine, but I think this is illegal in a lot of western states. Hand signals are good to go, but electronic communication can get you in trouble. Again I could be wrong, but figured I'd mention it especially since you said you were newer to hunting.

As far as spotting scopes go, go big.

Good luck!

 

[JustinPNW]

Bingo. No amount of money will help you see through a mirage.

High quality spotter are only useful to trophy hunters IMO. I can see whether a mule deer is legal from over a half mile away with my 8x bins on a good mount. The good mount is the key there.

Yes, I've definitely realized the importance of a good tripod and mount. Good to hear you agree that mid-range glass is sufficient. That means I can save for other gear!

Don't mean to be "that guy" but you might want to be sure that's legal where you hunt.

Please don't worry about being "that guy." These comments can be incredibly helpful and are much appreciated! I did check that two-way radios were legal in Washington, so I think we're ok. That said, I now realize that there are strong opinions on either side as to whether using them for this is considered ethical or fair chase. I honestly did not think of that and now feel terrible and like I need to reconsider our approach, as I am in no way attempting to be unethical.

Thank you very much for bringing this up!

 

[JustinPNW]

I know nothing about WA hunting regs so you may be totally fine, but I think this is illegal in a lot of western states. Hand signals are good to go, but electronic communication can get you in trouble. Again I could be wrong, but figured I'd mention it especially since you said you were newer to hunting.

As far as spotting scopes go, go big.

Good luck!

I appreciate it. I've got a lot to think about now regarding the radio communication before next season. For what it's worth, this was my first season and I didn't harvest anything, so even given that potential unfair advantage, it wasn't enough to overcome my lack of experience.

Just to be clear, when you say "go big," do you mean in price/quality or objective size? lol

Thanks for your help!

 

[Newtosavage]

Yes, I've definitely realized the importance of a good tripod and mount. Good to hear you agree that mid-range glass is sufficient. That means I can save for other gear!

Please don't worry about being "that guy." These comments can be incredibly helpful and are much appreciated! I did check that two-way radios were legal in Washington, so I think we're ok. That said, I now realize that there are strong opinions on either side as to whether using them for this is considered ethical or fair chase. I honestly did not think of that and now feel terrible and like I need to reconsider our approach, as I am in no way attempting to be unethical.

Thank you very much for bringing this up!

Ethics and Legal are two completely different things. If it's legal and you want to use it, go ahead. I just know that several states don't allow electronic communication during a hunt and didn't want a fellow member to get themselves in trouble if it could be avoided.

Personally, I'd recommend you invest in a high quality pair of 10x bins and a very good tripod and binocular mount, then decide if you even need the spotter. I know they are popular with a lot of guys and I have one in my truck at all times and even have a Nikon ED50 for scouting days (when I'm not carrying my weapon) but I don't use a spotter in the field when I hunt anymore. I found I just don't need it.

 

[kad11]

I meant objective size

 

[JustinPNW]

Ethics and Legal are two completely different things. If it's legal and you want to use it, go ahead. I just know that several states don't allow electronic communication during a hunt and didn't want a fellow member to get themselves in trouble if it could be avoided.

Aye. Completely agree with you. I am comfortable that it is legal, but perhaps in an unintended way, your comment has caused me to think about the ethics surrounding it, which I appreciate. Thanks for looking out for me all the same, bud!

 

[Newtosavage]

I meant objective size

Yea the light gathering difference between even my 50 and 60 ED's is significant.

 

[JustinPNW]

Got it. That confirms my feeling to go towards an 85mm objective. Thanks, guys!

 

[PathFinder]

I'm in the camp that a spotter isn't necessary at all. My experience has been that sub-alpha spotters aren't worth owning, unless you just want more weight in your pack for exercise. Get a top end spotter, or don't bother wasting pack weight and money on something that's borderline useless in all but ideal lighting conditions.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

 

[kad11]

The more I learn about optics, the more I'm convinced there's generally a lot of sample variation across many brands and product lines. The birding folks talk about cherry and lemon units all the time - even among the $2000+ spotters.

 

[kad11]

I'm in the camp that a spotter isn't necessary at all. My experience has been that sub-alpha spotters aren't worth owning, unless you just want more weight in your pack for exercise. Get a top end spotter, or don't bother wasting pack weight and money on something that's borderline useless in all but ideal lighting conditions.

Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk

If I was hunting mulies in Eastern WA, I'd absolutely want a good spotter. He likely won't be content with any animal after he kills a few...

I agree crappy spotters are boat anchors.

 

[swavescatter]

Real world comparison: Vortex Razor HD 85mm vs Swarovski 95mm with BTX.

Elk on a rocky/sage hilltop ~1 mile away.

Both set up and started glassing to find elk. Vortex was the first one to find them, but this was probably chance/user. Top end magnification wasn't terribly useful in the vortex, but the Swaro was fixed at 30. Neither one could field judge, looked similar honestly.

Same result at about 3.5 miles on another mountain. We could see elk but not discern sex on either setup. Mirage killed both during the heat.

$1400ish for the Vortex setup and $5k+ for the Swaro. But man, that BTX setup was comfy and the field of view was incredible.

Bottom line: Vortex Razor HD seemed to do anything the Swaro could do, but comfort with that BTX setup was crazy. Also weighs like 30 friggin pounds though. Would have been interesting to compare the Swaro with an ATX setup.

My recommendation is to either go for bang for the buck with 'beta' glass or all in for 100lb Swaro BTX. Backpacking in more than a couple miles I wouldn't even consider the Swaro, and maybe not even the Vortex. If you're a truck hunter then Swaro if you can afford it.

Eventually I'll probably end up with the Swaro 115mm BTX setup and a pair of alpha 15X binos (in addition to my RF 10x and Vortex spotter) depending on the hunt.

 

[CApighunter]

I wouldn’t say it’s necessary, but it’s sure nice to have. My Kowa 883 is worth every ounce. I’ve been able to find bucks that had disappeared after bedding that my buddies couldn’t see with binos and lower tier spotters. Sometimes it’s the difference in being able to separate antler tines from branches.