It wasn’t Talley - it’s apparently me. Scope won’t stay fixed - Update: fixed. Added to first post

[freddyG]

Talley lightweights aren’t round. They are designed to conform to your scope tube with torque and give/stretch into a true state. They will absolutely bind with a loose prefit in most circumstances. Hell, they will usually snap onto a scope tube with no screws at all and not fall off with gravity. Doesn’t mean they won’t hold. They will when torqued down. But this is why others, myself included will lap them, which makes for a bind free fit with more surface contact and clamping force, and less stress. Lapping is easy, cheap and good insurance. I wouldn’t be intimidated by it. That said, it’s usually not totally necessary. Install those suckers and go if you want to, as sndmn11 indicated.

Ughh. If you cant set the scope in the ring bottoms without stress being introduced, aluminium rings have a good chance of cracking. Usually out in the middle of nowhere on a hunt.
I have talleys that fit the scope tube like a glove, and talleys that fit like socks on a rooster. To the point of not being usable without lapping and bedding. So which is it? Are they supposed to be round or not? Lol. Can’t have it both ways. Talley says not to lap their rings. They say they are good out of the box.

It’s very obvious that some of the advice here is from people that have no clue what they are doing.

 

[SDHNTR]

Ughh. If you cant set the scope in the ring bottoms without stress being introduced, aluminium rings have a good chance of cracking. Usually out in the middle of nowhere on a hunt.
I have talleys that fit the scope tube like a glove, and talleys that fit like socks on a rooster. To the point of not being usable without lapping and bedding. So which is it? Are they supposed to be round or not? Lol. Can’t have it both ways. Talley says not to lap their rings. They say they are good out of the box.

It’s very obvious that some of the advice here is from people that have no clue what they are doing.

So apparently I don’t know what I’m doing?

I’ve mounted dozens of Talley lightweights. I’ve never once had a scope slip or a ring crack. Sometimes/usually they need lapping. Sometimes/rarely they are fine out of the box. Who knows why or how or when they come out good and when they don’t. It does in fact happen both ways. Sometimes they’re good out the box and sometimes they’re not. I don’t work for Talley, so I don’t know why. I also don’t care what Talley says about lapping. When they need it, they need it. No one will admit when their baby is ugly anyway! But I know how to identify when there is a problem, and how to rectify it easily for a lifetime of trouble free use. They shouldn’t take the tinkering, but they usually do. And it’s not a huge deal.

 

[freddyG]

You stated talley lightweights aren’t round. That is a problem. It‘s shit QC. Period. I have never run into a quality ring that is oval. Makes zero sense.

If they were great rings, or easy to get working most of the time, this thread wouldn’t exist.

It’s apparent the OP has limited experience with ring modification, so advising him to polish a turd, is bad advice. An EGW rail/Seekins Or other quality rings are almost impossible to f-up, so why would anyone slam their head against the wall just for the sake of doing it?

 

[SDHNTR]

You stated talley lightweights aren’t round. That is a problem. It‘s shit QC. Period. I have never run into a quality ring that is oval. Makes zero sense.

If they were great rings, or easy to get working most of the time, this thread wouldn’t exist.

It’s apparent the OP has limited experience with ring modification, so advising him to polish a turd, is bad advice. An EGW rail/Seekins Or other quality rings are almost impossible to f-up, so why would anyone slam their head against the wall just for the sake of doing it?

You may be right. I don’t disagree with you on Talley’s QC or know what their intent is. All I know is that I can make them work when modification is necessary and I know how to identify when it is or isn’t. And for $50, I don’t mind it, especially versus upwards of $200 for a rail and ring set up. I was also trying to help him realize that it’s not hard to make what he already has in hand work just fine, rather than continuing to buy more stuff.

 

[freddyG]

It’s only easy to get what he has working if you have done it before and have the tools. A decent lapping bar is about $70, ant then you need bedding compound. Another $20 or so. It all adds up either way.

I lapped one of those sets of talley’s I posted about earlier. In order to get a stress free installation, they wouldn’t work without bedding, because of the amount of material removed to make them round. They were that bad. While it was easy, it was a lot of effort, and very time consuming. Not exactly something a newbie can do easily.

 

[260madman]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1477322292

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1477175947?pid=175947

Rings

 

[Bluto]

You may be right. I don’t disagree with you on Talley’s QC or know what their intent is. All I know is that I can make them work when modification is necessary and I know how to identify when it is or isn’t. And for $50, I don’t mind it, especially versus upwards of $200 for a rail and ring set up. I was also trying to help him realize that it’s not hard to make what he already has in hand work just fine, rather than continuing to buy more stuff.

It’s only easy to get what he has working if you have done it before and have the tools. A decent lapping bar is about $70, ant then you need bedding compound. Another $20 or so. It all adds up either way.

I lapped one of those sets of talley’s I posted about earlier. In order to get a stress free installation, they wouldn’t work without bedding, because of the amount of material removed to make them round. They were that bad. While it was easy, it was a lot of effort, and very time consuming. Not exactly something a newbie can do easily.

I agree with both sides. In this case, at this point, I’m probably just slapping a rail on it and mounting the rings. Eventually I’ll get a base/ring solution and chalk it all up to learning. The goal being a solution that holds, shoots well, and looks like I want it to look. I think that’s achievable.

That said, I’m also clearly doing *something* wrong. Hence the title of the thread. And I’m a fighter pilot by trade so fear, sarcasm, and ridicule are perfectly good teaching techniques. I’m used to it

Should I be able to lap rings? Yeah, probably. Do I think that in 2022 I should be able to buy something that doesn’t need it? Yeah, probably. I’m guessing that what I end up with is a set of Warne bases and rings. Unless I get the correct Leupold’s to work. Or even the Talley’s. I don’t much care, as long as they function. Oh, and that it’s not a rail and giant tactical rings with external bolt heads on them. Because then I’d have to wear a flat bill hat and drink IPA or PBR and that’s just not gonna happen. (relax, IPA fans with flat bills. It’s a joke.)

 

[Bluto]

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1477322292

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1477175947?pid=175947

Rings

Yup, viable solution. But delivery timeframe stretches to Sep 8th. I’ve put myself in a time crunch, so that won’t work. I need time to put several boxes of ammo through this thing. I’ve shot it, I love the rifle, but I need to have confidence in it. That only comes with repetition. So I’m baking that into the solution.

What I have inbound is an EGW rail, a Leupold backcountry rail, Seekins rings, and those Vortex pro rings. Some combination will work. Maybe I’ll even stick with it.

Hopefully I stick one during archery season and it’s a non-factor. But I’m not counting on it.

 

[sndmn11]

Should I be able to lap rings? Yeah, probably. Do I think that in 2022 I should be able to buy something that doesn’t need it? Yeah, probably. I’m guessing that what I end up with is a set of Warne bases and rings. Unless I get the correct Leupold’s to work. Or even the Talley’s. I don’t much care, as long as they function. Oh, and it’s not a rail with giant rings with external bolt heads on them. Because then I’d have to wear a flat bill hat and drink IPA or PBR and that’s just not gonna happen. (relax, IPA fans with flat bills. It’s a joke.)

Lapping rings is not necessary. It's a silly notion that hand sanding something will produce precision better than CNC machinist. One of the people above is literally describing having to add material back with epoxy because of their lapping.

I'm near certain you can use the Talley one piece with properly tightened screws, as is, and have success. Regardless of what you use, you'll still have to properly tighten a bunch of little screws, and that seems like the hurdle to overcome.

 

[Bluto]

Lapping rings is not necessary. It's a silly notion that hand sanding something will produce precision better than CNC machinist. One of the people above is literally describing having to add material back with epoxy because of their lapping.

I'm near certain you can use the Talley one piece with properly tightened screws, as is, and have success. Regardless of what you use, you'll still have to properly tighten a bunch of little screws, and that seems like the hurdle to overcome.

Certainly seems like the simplest solution. Since I have two days to get anything else in my hand I’ll probably give it a shot. Nothing to lose at this point.

I felt confident in them the first time I mounted them, as properly tightening screws is something I feel like I can do at this stage of life. But…something didn’t work. And they didn’t crack or structurally fail, so now I have my doubts lol

 

[sndmn11]

Certainly seems like the simplest solution. Since I have two days to get anything else in my hand I’ll probably give it a shot. Nothing to lose at this point.

I felt confident in them the first time I mounted them, as properly tightening screws is something I feel like I can do at this stage of life. But…something didn’t work. And they didn’t crack or structurally fail, so now I have my doubts lol

I don't think you can overtighten the screws on the tube grabbing the small side of the wrench. Give it some thumb and pointer finger power muscle and go shoot.

 

[SDHNTR]

I agree with both sides. In this case, at this point, I’m probably just slapping a rail on it and mounting the rings. Eventually I’ll get a base/ring solution and chalk it all up to learning. The goal being a solution that holds, shoots well, and looks like I want it to look. I think that’s achievable.

That said, I’m also clearly doing *something* wrong. Hence the title of the thread. And I’m a fighter pilot by trade so fear, sarcasm, and ridicule are perfectly good teaching techniques. I’m used to it

Should I be able to lap rings? Yeah, probably. Do I think that in 2022 I should be able to buy something that doesn’t need it? Yeah, probably. I’m guessing that what I end up with is a set of Warne bases and rings. Unless I get the correct Leupold’s to work. Or even the Talley’s. I don’t much care, as long as they function. Oh, and that it’s not a rail and giant tactical rings with external bolt heads on them. Because then I’d have to wear a flat bill hat and drink IPA or PBR and that’s just not gonna happen. (relax, IPA fans with flat bills. It’s a joke.)

Haha, dude I get you. I like your self deprecating sense of humor. And ultimately, piss on this whole thread because did you just say you are a fighter pilot? Seriously? Buddy, you win at life! You seriously took every boy’s childhood dream and made it come true. I’m green with envy. Thank you for your service and if there’s anything I can ever do to help your riflemanship skills along please just ask. It would be my honor.

 

[AkRyan]

**** the torque wrench just tighten it down and see if it moves.

 

[Bluto]

It’s been an awesome ride, but that’s far too kind. I’m just a dude. I guess it does go to show you can spend your childhood growing up in a trailer running barefoot and work your way into something you want to do. (Luck and timing also helps.)

Still doesn’t mean you can figure out how to put a scope on a rifle. Apparently.

Back to work. Here’s the difference and what gives me pause.

The Leupold bases cradle the scope what I would describe as perfectly. Good contact, no gaps front nor rear on either base and the scope will slide and rotate freely on the bases without the ring caps installed. This SWFA will actually rotate clockwise in the base on its own since there’s no left side turret. With the Talley bases, it has the same fit feel except it will not move smoothly. It doesn’t scratch the scope but there’s definite resistance to rotational and fore/aft movement.

One is normal, one isn’t. I assumed the Leupold’s were, but maybe that’s the issue with them (since we know it was the wrong part number?)

I’m hesitant to crank these caps on until I determine if the alignment is okay. If it’s jacked up, I don’t want to put point pressure on the scope tube.

 

[Pdog06]

Did you try putting a small alignment mark on the scope and ring(I.e. small thin line of nail polish or similar)? Just to positively confirm it is turning in the rings…and is doing so in multiple sets of rings?
Are you positive it isnt the scope? Have you tried a different scope? You’ve already proven that the rings weren’t torqued correctly but you bought new stuff instead of re-torquing and seeing if that was the issue?

Just never seen a scope turn using multiple ring/base combos and still think it’s the rings.

 

[sndmn11]

With the Talley bases, it has the same fit feel except it will not move smoothly. It doesn’t scratch the scope but there’s definite resistance to rotational and fore/aft movement.

I’m hesitant to crank these caps on until I determine if the alignment is okay. If it’s jacked up, I don’t want to put point pressure on the scope tube.

It sounds like...it sounds like it fits.

Tighten the screws and go shoot. You are not going to hurt that scope. This is a real life story about horses and water.

 

[Pdog06]

It sounds like...it sounds like it fits.

Tighten the screws and go shoot. You are not going to hurt that scope. This is a real life story about horses and water.

This

 

[Bluto]

Will do. Going to degrease the crap out of everything again and put it back together. I question whether or not I have good alignment but it never shows off more than a few clicks laterally. (Less than 1mil, usually less than .5)

 

[SDHNTR]

I don't think you can overtighten the screws on the tube grabbing the small side of the wrench. Give it some thumb and pointer finger power muscle and go shoot.

This is true. I don’t think lapping is totally necessary, I just think it can make something marginal better. And by no means do I think that hand lapping produces better concentricity than a cnc machine, at least not in a vacuum. The problem comes when you mount said rings to a slightly imperfect receiver. Now you could have the truest rings in the world, but you just imparted a foreign element and misalignment that reduces precision. Lapping brings that back. At least it does, or can, in my experience.

And ultimately, if you don’t want to lap, you don’t have to. That’s why Talley lightweights are designed to give a little. Crank em up with your fingers and the small end of the wrench. The worst that will happen immediately is maybe some marks on your scope tube. After many shots yes sometimes a crack can appear if your chit was way out of alignment to begin with and you stressed the aluminum that much, but those circumstances are rare and extreme. Like so much else that exists down this rabbit hole we’re all in, do what feels right and sounds reasonable to you. You’re obviously a smart guy. On this site and many others, you’ve got to have the ability to cut through the fluff and the BS to find the true pearls of wisdom, and there are many.

 

[SDHNTR]

And if you really want to answer your question…