Justified shooting? What say you?

Rich M

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Stupid situation for sure.

If true - when the big guy said he was gonna take gun and shoot little dude with his own gun, then grabbed the gun and swung lil dude around is where it became self defense for lil dude. Big guy wasn't in any danger until he threatened and physically grabbed that gun. That's when his posturing and threats became real.

Lil Dude's attitude will bite him. He's likely to catch some kind of charge - especially standing there, yapping for the camera.

Yet, another lesson in not grabbing someone's firearm.

Will be a big court case for the media to spin against gun owners.
 

Actual_Cryptid

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Stupid situation for sure.

If true - when the big guy said he was gonna take gun and shoot little dude with his own gun, then grabbed the gun and swung lil dude around is where it became self defense for lil dude. Big guy wasn't in any danger until he threatened and physically grabbed that gun. That's when his posturing and threats became real.

Lil Dude's attitude will bite him. He's likely to catch some kind of charge - especially standing there, yapping for the camera.

Yet, another lesson in not grabbing someone's firearm.

Will be a big court case for the media to spin against gun owners.
This doesn't sit right for me. If I start a fight and pull out a gun, I lose the right to claim self defense just because the other person decides they don't want to get shot. We can consider the Texas penal codes:

Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 22.05

look down at
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse;

Going to get a gun when there is no need and no threat to stand there and wave it around is at bare minimum assault. To me I don't see any difference between that and someone who starts any other fight and then pulls out a weapon. If you're armed you have a responsibility not to escalate things. I don't even buy the "Well I was armed so he could have taken my gun from me, so i had to shoot him" when it's police doing it, much less this scumbag. This wasn't self-defense, it was instigation and escalation ending in murder.
 

Btaylor

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Seemed unusually casual, scripted.
I think the shooter goes to prison.
GF seemed unphased by the whole deal.
Proof Idiots walk among us.
If everybody thinks like these 3, we're headed for societal collapse.
I wont be surprised if the shooter and both women dont end up with charges based on their reactions or lack there of to the shooting. Has to be more to this than has been revealed.
 

bsnedeker

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I wont be surprised if the shooter and both women dont end up with charges based on their reactions or lack there of to the shooting. Has to be more to this than has been revealed.

Where exactly is it written into law what your response should be after you witness someone shot directly in front of you?

The amount of conspiracy theories on this thread is astounding. Everyone was in shock at what just happened, including the guy who did the shooting. Judging people on their reactions after something terrible happens is pretty silly.
 

FLATHEAD

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Unusual behavior does often warrant further investigation.
Course, I'm just silly.
 

bsnedeker

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Unusual behavior does often warrant further investigation.
Course, I'm just silly.
Unusual based on what standard? How many shootings have you observed giving you expertise on what is usual and what is not? You see conspiracies...I see a man trying to process what the hell just happened to him. Maybe you're right...who knows? Based on the video evidence I see nothing to warrant all of this nonsense other than people wanting to add drama to a situation that already has plenty.
 

Btaylor

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Where exactly is it written into law what your response should be after you witness someone shot directly in front of you?

The amount of conspiracy theories on this thread is astounding. Everyone was in shock at what just happened, including the guy who did the shooting. Judging people on their reactions after something terrible happens is pretty silly.
Seriously? They had no reaction, like it was expected. Watch the news coverage of the next tornado that hits somewhere and how devastated folks are by their property being destroyed. This was a dude getting freakin shot in front of them and there was zero reaction. That is far from normal.
 
OP
Broomd

Broomd

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I've read from a few sources that the woman in the home with the smartphone was the infamous judge aka KC's ex...that means all ex's and CR's new wife were there. We can all agree, no one seemed overly alarmed about the killing, bizarre...and juries don't take kindly to that flippance with a dead man lying there.

Haven't confirmed it's the judge in the house, but it explains why this case has stalled as much as it has.
A grand jury indictment would change that.

If this isn't prosecuted Texas will be the laughing stock of the country, even for hard core 2nd A advocates.
 

PredatorSlayer

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I don’t think it is as clear cut as some of you think unless more evidence is presented. Going off the video and audio alone, I am guessing this will be ruled self defense.

Because its a custody issue some of you seem to be tied to it emotionally. Little dude has a right to have a firearm on his property. Big guy was asked to leave several times. It is my understanding that this was the little dudes place of business. Could it have been handled better or different? sure. The big guy decided to try and assault the little guy instead of get back in his truck and call the cops.
 

bsnedeker

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Seriously? They had no reaction, like it was expected. Watch the news coverage of the next tornado that hits somewhere and how devastated folks are by their property being destroyed. This was a dude getting freakin shot in front of them and there was zero reaction. That is far from normal.

Do those tornado news stories have people with cameras on the peoples faces immediately after a tornado tears through everything...or, and I'm just throwing this out there...do they interview people WELL after the event has happened and the emotions have hit them? I'll let you figure out the difference.
 
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Broomd

Broomd

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I don’t think it is as clear cut as some of you think unless more evidence is presented. Going off the video and audio alone, I am guessing this will be ruled self defense.

Because its a custody issue some of you seem to be tied to it emotionally. Little dude has a right to have a firearm on his property. Big guy was asked to leave several times. It is my understanding that this was the little dudes place of business. Could it have been handled better or different? sure. The big guy decided to try and assault the little guy instead of get back in his truck and call the cops.
Pred, I'm hearing you man, but I can't get passed this....with 10-12' between them, a center mass shot is a bridge too far. The optics are horrible. Can't see a jury rolling with this, even in Tejas....
UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_2120.jpg
 

Btaylor

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Do those tornado news stories have people with cameras on the peoples faces immediately after a tornado tears through everything...or, and I'm just throwing this out there...do they interview people WELL after the event has happened and the emotions have hit them? I'll let you figure out the difference.
Having been in a tornado and my business being the first business off of a heavily travelled hwy, we sheltered a couple dozen folks who were trying to get out of the storm. Reactions were immediate and significant. And we had no one injured much less shot dead.
 

grappling_hook

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Press, I'm hearing you man, but I can't get passed this....with 10-12' between them, a center mass shot is a bridge too far. The optics are horrible. Can't see a jury rolling with this, even in Tejas....
^^ Also, and this can be easy to miss in the video, he shoots him twice. One center of mass shot while the dad is standing there, and a second center of mass shot as he’s dropping from the first shot.
 

TBHasler

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There may be no legal need to retreat from a threat in that state...child custody issues can be very ugly...hard to just walk away.
It is Texas…retreat has not generally been a factor in past cases. On your property and you legitimately fear for loss of life/property and/or are in imminent danger = generally justified

I wouldn’t want to comment on all the factors that could go into these deteriorations by just this video
 

cod007

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I don’t think it is as clear cut as some of you think unless more evidence is presented. Going off the video and audio alone, I am guessing this will be ruled self defense.

Because its a custody issue some of you seem to be tied to it emotionally. Little dude has a right to have a firearm on his property. Big guy was asked to leave several times. It is my understanding that this was the little dudes place of business. Could it have been handled better or different? sure. The big guy decided to try and assault the little guy instead of get back in his truck and call the cops.
This!!
A few things the ....’this is murder’ crowd, fails to recognize.
Little man (aka, the shooter) has a legal right to carry a weapon any time he feels like it. In fact, isn’t it more advantageous to carry a weapon when one can EXPECT danger? ( answer, of course it is).
Secondly, the statement often made regarding the little guy being a ‘chicken’ of the bigger guy. To that I offer this.... DUH!!! Are you the same folks who the idiot lawyer who spoke against Kyle Rittenhouse appealed to when he stupidly stated...’we all have to take a beating once in a while’. (Really??? That’s BS).
Thirdly, when big (dead) man says to ‘little man’... I’m gonna take your gun and use it on you’, that statement immediately puts little man reason for ‘fear of life’ mode. That mode does not necessarily change for a scrawny ‘little man’ just because there’s 5 seconds and ten feet from the two of them. Especially since he was flung those ten feet off the porch.
You need 12 jurors to come to guilty verdict. You only need one juror to hang the jury. Based on the so called facts as I see them so far, no way do I vote guilty.
Obviously we don’t know all the facts yet so I’m open to change my mind but.....
I hope that those defenders of the big (dead) guy don’t make as many foolish and dangerously idiotic decisions in their personal lives as he did. If so, God help you.
 

FLATHEAD

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Yosemite Sam should have went inside, called 911 and stayed there.
He was not in imminent danger until he showed up with the gun.
That said, big guy should have immediately walked back to the truck upon seeing the gun.
Whole thing seems rehearsed, except for the victim.
 
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Rich M

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This doesn't sit right for me. If I start a fight and pull out a gun, I lose the right to claim self defense just because the other person decides they don't want to get shot. We can consider the Texas penal codes:

Tex. Penal Code Ann. § 22.05

look down at
(2) intentionally or knowingly threatens another with imminent bodily injury, including the person's spouse;

Going to get a gun when there is no need and no threat to stand there and wave it around is at bare minimum assault. To me I don't see any difference between that and someone who starts any other fight and then pulls out a weapon. If you're armed you have a responsibility not to escalate things. I don't even buy the "Well I was armed so he could have taken my gun from me, so i had to shoot him" when it's police doing it, much less this scumbag. This wasn't self-defense, it was instigation and escalation ending in murder.
Let it sit w you any way you want. I really dont care about the case and think it is a stupid situation. Oddest thing is that noone seems to care about dead guy.

We werent there and dont have all the info. Cant make an educated assessment or decision until we have the facts. Dont allow your emotions to be in control.
 

bdg848

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This!!
A few things the ....’this is murder’ crowd, fails to recognize.
Little man (aka, the shooter) has a legal right to carry a weapon any time he feels like it. In fact, isn’t it more advantageous to carry a weapon when one can EXPECT danger? ( answer, of course it is).
Secondly, the statement often made regarding the little guy being a ‘chicken’ of the bigger guy. To that I offer this.... DUH!!! Are you the same folks who the idiot lawyer who spoke against Kyle Rittenhouse appealed to when he stupidly stated...’we all have to take a beating once in a while’. (Really??? That’s BS).
Thirdly, when big (dead) man says to ‘little man’... I’m gonna take your gun and use it on you’, that statement immediately puts little man reason for ‘fear of life’ mode. That mode does not necessarily change for a scrawny ‘little man’ just because there’s 5 seconds and ten feet from the two of them. Especially since he was flung those ten feet off the porch.
You need 12 jurors to come to guilty verdict. You only need one juror to hang the jury. Based on the so called facts as I see them so far, no way do I vote guilty.
Obviously we don’t know all the facts yet so I’m open to change my mind but.....
I hope that those defenders of the big (dead) guy don’t make as many foolish and dangerously idiotic decisions in their personal lives as he did. If so, God help you.
You and I have a right to carry a gun, absolutely...but simply being armed is very different than brandishing. If you and another person are simply arguing and I am simply standing there with no reason to feel threatened and I draw my pistol and start waiving it around and threatening to shoot you if you don't leave, then I have unjustly placed YOU in fear for your safety. You might even feel that you need to take action against me since I am the one acting irrationally. Further, the victim ,arguably, has a right to be there or at least a reasonable belief he is entitled to be there since he is abiding by the court order to pick his kids up. It may be different if he is trying to force his way into the building but he is simply standing in the yard waiting for his kids to be delivered to him. The shooter CAN'T create the danger to which you use deadly force and still claim self defense.
 
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