Keeping Trespassers out....is it possible?

[Broz]

If you want to put up signs, here is what has worked well for me. Normal signs will be torn down and tossed over the hill before you get back to the house. Usually each state has a color to indicate private property, Montana is Orange, I drive a T post, and be sure its on your property, then slide a 2" schedule 40 pvc pipe over it painted orange on the top and leave it white on bottom half. Then drill with cordless drill and secure it with a 1/4" bolt and double nuts locked together. Cap the top for a more professional look. It is durable, very visible and offers a professional looking warning of boundaries. All of these I have put out are still in place years later.

 

[Praxeus]

I’m not making a final opinion as I don’t have all the facts but it sounds like there very well may be a prescriptive easement, meaning legal public access. Prescriptive easements don’t have to be recorded. They are unwritten easements based on past use. You are likely deemed aware of the easement based on the well-worn trail. It would be irresponsible to not determine the legal status of the trail just like it is when the public goes on private property without knowledge.

Thanks for this info. Very interesting. In other words....if Im reading this right, a well worn path can justify trespassing, if they were never caught? It is my understanding that the previous owner went to war over the path and actually prosecuted some trespassers. Im learning a lot here. thanks for the input. Ive got some homework to do...

 

[idahohikker]

Thanks for this info. Very interesting. In other words....if Im reading this right, a well worn path can justify trespassing, if they were never caught? It is my understanding that the previous owner went to war over the path and actually prosecuted some trespassers. Im learning a lot here. thanks for the input. Ive got some homework to do...

It’s not trespassing if, and only if, a valid prescriptive easement has been established. Then the easement would be as legal as a recorded written easement on file with the county. There are prescriptive easements one place for many FS or BLM trails cutting through private land. Determining if a prescriptive easement exists is a technical legal analysis that requires a deep dive into all the facts. You’ll probably need to do some digging regarding historic use.

It’s worth looking into.

 

[robby denning]

I didn't read all the responses, but the best I can offer is follow through with all prosecution. You'd think that would be obvious but too many times it's a pain for landowners to show up for court and then the case gets dropped. Prosecute enough times and it will curb the flow.

 

[ncstewart]

I have land that joins Forrest and honestly if people are just skirting the property I don’t really mess with it. I have personally walked a lot of boundaries to access Forrest so hard for me to cut people off even if I own the land. It’s a difficult line for sure but for me it’s been easier to just let it slide as long as they aren’t being disrespectful or tearing up anything. Best of luck tho cause it can be frustrating figuring it out.


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[flyinsquirel]

If you don't already have your corners marked and verified by a Surveyor, that would be the first thing I would suggest. Then get the line marked at locations on the line as appropriate if you cant see corner to corner.

Not saying this is you, but as a reformed Surveyor I can say you'd be surprised how many people have no idea where their property line actually is, or buy property taking the current owners/real estate agents word for where it is. Hell, most people buy property with no corners in the ground at all.

Regarding the prescriptive easement topic, the advice to contact a land attorney is spot on. Being that you had knowledge of the problem prior to purchasing and it has been a longstanding use of the property, you may be stuck here.

Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[87TT]

A) I don't think the easement is a possibility in Idaho with the new trespass laws. Those Texas brothers who bought all that timber company property gated off Forest service roads and got away with it.
B) I don't see an issue as long as one is not hunting or damaging the property and only passing through on foot to get to "their" property (USFS). I hate that landowners can just block access to public land. Imagine if I blocked the road in front to my house just because I owned both sides.
That said, I don't knowingly trespass even if it means walking the long way around. Asking permission can go a long way.

 

[idahohikker]

A) I don't think the easement is a possibility in Idaho with the new trespass laws. Those Texas brothers who bought all that timber company property gated off Forest service roads and got away with it.
B) I don't see an issue as long as one is not hunting or damaging the property and only passing through on foot to get to "their" property (USFS). I hate that landowners can just block access to public land. Imagine if I blocked the road in front to my house just because I owned both sides.
That said, I don't knowingly trespass even if it means walking the long way around. Asking permission can go a long way.

A) I don't think the easement is a possibility in Idaho with the new trespass laws. Those Texas brothers who bought all that timber company property gated off Forest service roads and got away with it.
B) I don't see an issue as long as one is not hunting or damaging the property and only passing through on foot to get to "their" property (USFS). I hate that landowners can just block access to public land. Imagine if I blocked the road in front to my house just because I owned both sides.
That said, I don't knowingly trespass even if it means walking the long way around. Asking permission can go a long way.

The trespassing issue does not change the prescriptive easement analysis and the easements may still be formed. They are established based on use without permission. The trespassing law change would significantly increase the penalties for trespassing though. I would imagine this would hamper anyone’s efforts at establishing a prescriptive easement in the future, for better or for worse.

 

[rob86jeep]

Is the property entirely fenced? I saw you mentioned some gates but did respond if the property was fenced or not. If it isn't, that would probably be my first step if I wanted to keep the trespassers off.

 

[Praxeus]

Thank you to all of the helpful info here. The perspective easement would not apply to my property according to a RE lawyer that was referred to me. The property corners are marked and not just with boundary markers but plates on the trees that revealed tri angulation/ survey. The property is not fenced...thatd be a nightmare although we are now considering a few spots.

All in all, it is going to come down to catching trespassers on game/ trail cameras and push it to the limit. Whatever it takes. I understand the one guy on here that suggested just letting guys go through to get to "their spot". The problem is, they dont just stay on the trail.the previous owner has found them wandering all over. So, I am attempting to have the NFS close the trail down completely based on the merits that those using the trail, freely exercise their trespassing rights and go off trail. Interesting as this gives a whole new meaning to open borders for me.

 

[zeroforhire]

Make a portable electric fence. I have one I made that uses a solar panel for my sheep. Check YouTube for tips.

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[mtnbiker208]

what i have done, is walk up to them and tell them to get the f!@# off of my land and escort them out. or i have taken the doe the guy shot and thru it in the back of the white pickup and then told him to get the f out of there. make sure blood goes everywhere when you do this. private property is private property. another time, i could go on and on, it is a bummer.

 

[Sccritterkiller]

A few hours with a chainsaw and a couple well placed downed trees has gone a long way in keep folks off my farm...tHAT and prosecuting the idiot's you do catch. If these folks are too lazy to go around they sure wont like fighting tree tops to get thru the trail. Good Luck!

 

[bigdesert10]

Coming at this as a guy who has owned land adjacent to public land, as long as they're not tearing stuff up or stealing crap, why lose any sleep over it? Unless you're just trying to leverage that public land as your own publicly-funded honey hole, what's it hurting to allow foot traffic? Put up a sign that reminds people it is private and that you are allowing access at your own pleasure. People tend to be real respectful when reminded to stay on trail and not make a mess. You catch more flies with honey.

 

[ChrisS]

What state is this property and why did you purchase it? For access to the NF that you would otherwise have to walk miles around to get to? did you buy it to hunt those areas that others are trespassing to get to? How far onto the property from the boundary line are people trespassing? 10ft, 100 yds, 1,000 yds?

Hell, if it's less than 100 yards, I'd probably just look into selling or leasing an access easement. Save you a ton of aggravation and make some money to boot.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

SSS

 

[Praxeus]

The last several posts deserve a response as I have heard similar comments. If I buy a piece of land for it to be a "private" piece for hunting, recreation or whatever I choose to do, I have the right to maintain its borders. I understand the thinking behind "hey, let them use that trail, they aren't hurting anything" discredits the original purpose and privilege to ownership. If that cuts off access or at least ease of access, oh well. Why would I spend thousands and thousands (honestly) and then allow for traffic through the property. Defeats our intent. Im not trying to be unreasonable. Just realistic as to our original intentions and plans.

 

[wthunter]

Praxeus - I agree. Private land is private land, period. Many people who do not own land just don't understand. If other people who own land don't have a problem with it, that is certainly their choice, but it doesn't mean it has to be your choice.

Fencing is going to be your main deterrent. I know you said it isn't feasible, but it is by far the best option. If you can't put in a fence, drive in T-posts and paint them whatever your state color for 'no trespassing' is. I would put them in within site of each other. You really need to make a clear boundary distinction.

Like others said, you have to prosecute, no exceptions. Also, I do not agree with 'being professional'. This isn't a job interview. There is a fine line there, but if you are too nice, they will take that as weakness.

Also, there is no way in hell I would look deeply into the prescriptive easement until someone claims there is one. You are just asking for trouble. If the sheriff is willing to make arrests and write tickets, there is no need to look into it. Maybe someone will try to get off by claiming the prescriptive easement and that is when I would address it.

As a fellow landowner, trespassing is just a very unfortunate part of the deal. It can ruin a weekend or a hunting trip in a hurry.

 

[RockinU]

I would have recommended finding a way to offer permission, so that you know who was going through and when, and would be better able to make sure they just passed through and maintain a modicum of control, but it seems that your goal isn't just to prevent trespass, but also to prevent the ease of access that the trespass gains, and that's your prerogative.

I would like to point out that situations like this provide an example of the reasons to give to organizations like RMEF, who buy pieces of land like this, or secure easements through them in order to protect access to the land we all own. Private lands block access to a lot of our ground that the private owners then have free rein to. This is a common refrain throughout the west.

 

[idahohikker]

Haha don’t look into a prescriptive easement. A prescriptive easement is a legal right to use property the same as a written and recorded document. It’s ridiculous that you don’t respect the law when you’re so determined to enforce it against trespassers.

Both sides should be aware of their legal rights and act within them!