Kifarucast w/ Gillingham

[5MilesBack]

So do you run all 1 color vane? Seems hard to orient if that’s the case. I suppose you could do this mark the shaft and then refletch.

All I've ever used is 1 color. I kind of laugh when guys ask about nock tuning when they fletched their arrows with a different color cock vane. Most nocks have a raised index ridge on one side, so even in the dark you can nock your arrow correctly. But IMO as long as your arrows and bow are setup reasonably well, even if you nocked it wrong you should still be very close to where you're aiming. And also, with a 3-fletch there is only one way to nock the arrow and have your fletching in your "normal" orientation. The other way will have your fletching orientation all wonky, but even if you shot it that way.......you should still be acceptable. With 4-fletch you have a 50% chance of nocking it right, and either way you'll still have the same fletching orientation.

As an example......just yesterday I was shooting at 40 yards and shot the end of a nock off one arrow. That arrow wasn't marked at all, so after putting in a new nock I was basically starting from scratch. The first three times I shot it, it kept hitting in the right half of the bullseye. So I started nock tuning until it was down the middle again. The first three shots were still in the bullseye.........they just weren't perfect. It's all a matter of how far you want to take it.

 

[Planopurist]

So do you run all 1 color vane? Seems hard to orient if that’s the case. I suppose you could do this mark the shaft and then refletch.

Yes. A single color vane. Once you’re satisfied with the point of impact or dynamics of that nock orientation, mark that position of the nock detent for future nock replacement.


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[wabowman]

It was a good episode with 2 guys on opposite sides of the debate....somewhat. Tim is light and fast and Aron the higher end of mid way between. I have always been an advocate of 430gr plus arrows and speeds in the 280-290 fps.
I will definitely be watching the videos

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[Beendare]

#9 of 11
Tuning Broadheads

I never even thought about length of field points vs Broadheads, only weight.

Well yeah, if you are shooting a relatively light hunting arrow at speeds of 300fps or more....this is an issue.
I can get multiple long heads of the same weight to tune in my "Slow" 260fps-270fps compounds no problem.

Speed makes things much more critical....Aron commented on that and he is right on the money.

I don't know a single pro shooter that likes a heavy arrow for hunting...tits in their DNA.....they all want a lighter arrow for flatter trajectory. Tim does some fantastic tuning stuff...an accomplished pro no doubt- respect. But he does have a target guys perspective....worth noting IMO.

 

[robby denning]

Well yeah, if you are shooting a relatively light hunting arrow at speeds of 300fps or more....this is an issue.
I can get multiple long heads of the same weight to tune in my "Slow" 260fps-270fps compounds no problem.

Speed makes things much more critical....Aron commented on that and he is right on the money.

I don't know a single pro shooter that likes a heavy arrow for hunting...tits in their DNA.....they all want a lighter arrow for flatter trajectory. Tim does some fantastic tuning stuff...an accomplished pro no doubt- respect. But he does have a target guys perspective....worth noting IMO.

So I’m 370 grains, 285 fps, 15% FOC so point length prolly not a big deal?


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[wabowman]

So I’m 370 grains, 285 fps, 15% FOC so point length prolly not a big deal?


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No, Robby
I dont think point length is going to come into affect till after 60 yrds.

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[Brendan]

Another thing to keep in mind, Tim can shoot well enough at ranges the rest of us can't, where he will be able to notice a difference where it might be within our normal margin of error....

 

[robby denning]

No, Robby
I dont think point length is going to come into affect till after 60 yrds.

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Thanks man


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[Arctic Hunter]

Great podcast and debate. Tim Gillingham's videos were very well made and a great resource for anybody who hasn't watched them.

When I started shooting, before the internet and information was so readily available, I learned everything I know involving the technical aspects of archery from Target shooters I knew. We have so many good shooters these days, it's really a good time to get in to archery. But sometimes it's like drinking water through a fire hose.

 

[HonkeyMcGee88]

I still havent had a chance to watch them but with all these comments about how good they are I know what I'm doing at work tonight.

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[Steve O]

When it comes to the modern compound bow and associated equipment Tim Gillingham is pretty much as good as it gets. I really don't see how anybody would question his authority. Even the best competition guys will call Tim when they have a problem that they can't sort out on their own.

When it comes to living in the backcountry I think Aaron is at a very high level of expertise, but when it comes to modern compound archery I think Tim is on an entirely different level well beyond Aaron Snyder.

Aron made the point OVER and OVER that 99% of the archers today (and it is really ever) do not have the ability of Tim and they would be better served in the middle. And he is absolutely right. He was not preaching heavy, he was preaching heavier than the Gillingham extreme lightweight only care about speed approach. As with anything, working in the extremes one way or another is extremely difficult for even the above average individual to handle. Aron made a ton of sense there as usual.

It was definitely entertaining and thought provoking.

 

[Beendare]

Another thing to keep in mind, Tim can shoot well enough at ranges the rest of us can't, where he will be able to notice a difference where it might be within our normal margin of error....

Yep, and in my experience the pro guys I know will shoot much longer shots than most guys.

 

[307]

Aron made the point OVER and OVER that 99% of the archers today (and it is really ever) do not have the ability of Tim and they would be better served in the middle. And he is absolutely right. He was not preaching heavy, he was preaching heavier than the Gillingham extreme lightweight only care about speed approach. As with anything, working in the extremes one way or another is extremely difficult for even the above average individual to handle. Aron made a ton of sense there as usual.

It was definitely entertaining and thought provoking.

Where did Gillingham promote an extreme lightweight arrow? He leans further towards speed than Snyder, but certainly not what I'd consider extreme lightweight. There's probably 50 grains difference in their recommendations for a given setup.


Tim's skill with a bow doesn't have anything to do with his knowledge of how to tune and set up the modern compound bow. Being a giant bow nerd doesn't require world class ability, though I'm sure it helps. I hope you don't think that his knowledge and experience would only apply to his setup, and frame... He just flat knows bows and arrows, regardless of the fact that he himself is an extremely skilled orangutan.

 

[steelheadmike]

It was a very entertaining and educational podcast. But, for gits and shiggles, I'd like to listen to it again with buddies and take shots every time Aron says "happy medium".

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[dreamingWest]

I enjoyed the podcast. Tim knows his stuff. Personally once I get below 280 fps the trajectory becomes frustrating.

 

[Jakeb]

It is thought provoking. Although Tim has a 6” draw length advantage over me. Also has the know how to send an arrow PERFECTLY straight.

I don’t think very many people shooting a 70# 33” draw have any penetration issues.

I’ve had issues passing kill zones through white tails and hogs with sub 425 grain arrows. And I know I’m not the only one.

Last year I moved up to 500 grains and passed the kill zone through a deer and had the fletchings hang up in the skin on the opposite side. It was a quartering to shot so it did pass through a good bit of deer. I was still kind of hoping to dig my arrow out of the dirt though.

I’m currently setting up around a 625 grain arrow and I’m thinking I may have overshot it a bit though.

 

[Ratbeetle]

I'm listening to this right now and Tim sure thinks highly of competition shooters.

 

[RosinBag]

I'm listening to this right now and Tim sure thinks highly of competition shooters.

What is the point to this statement? He thinks highly of the best tournament archers in the world. Much like people think highly of the best MLB, NBA and NFL players.

It may be because tournament archers have probably tried and tested everything out there that has a direct effect on accuracy. That knowledge will certainly help those who only hunt be more accurate, which will translate into more success and fewer lost animals.

 

[Trial153]

I listened again ...Tim is pretty dense in some things. Mostly in that he keeps using his own specs over and over while ...his specs are so far out of the norm that we are probably looking out about 10% of bow hunters.

 

[Read1t48]

Robby -
Nice work on putting this post and links together. Appreciate it.

To the rest...
I've listened to this episode 3 times now. Good debate, for sure. Each"side" provided a strong points for their perspective. Kudos to Aron for trying to find a compromise! I have a lot to learn when it comes to archery. I used to rifle hunt with a .300. Fast and heavy. I watched the industry move toward 6.5 and related calibers. Its tends to be the leading cartridge in long range shooting matches. Interestingly, some of the leading shooters on the circuit opt for a heavier gun in "hunting" applications. But the 6.5 has certainly shown good performance in hunting scenarios - even on elk. Bullet technology, like arrows and broadheads, have come a long way in the last decade.

I have a 26" DL., which is obviously shorter than most. I'm always looking for ways to improve my arrow performance with a balance of speed and weight. My bow is set at 63#'s. I could certainly go higher without strain, but would it gain that much to go to 70#'s? I run 400gr. Axis arrows with a 100 grain fixed broadhead. With such short DL, the podcast makes one think about speed vs. weight. If I go with the higher FOC crowd, I have more significant drop at longer distances. At the moment, my sight is maxed out at 81 yards, but I'm shooting paper plate size groups at this distance. My furthest shot on an animal is 53 yards. I don't intend to shoot a big game animal at 81 yards -- not because of my ability, but because of my lack of confidence in the lethality of my arrow at that distance or the situation where something doesn't go "perfect". And, maybe more importantly, I've been able to make a closer stalk with time and patience. For me, shooting at longer distances makes 50-60yd. shots increasingly easy.

I certainly don't think I need to go with a "lighter" set-up. I just think a heavier FOC, or maybe finding a way to go "faster" deserves more consideration before going down that path. All good stuff to ponder.