Knight Mountaineer loads

brunse

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So I finally broke down and applied for a Colorado Miley muzzleloader tag. I should draw it. I have hunted the area during Archery several times. Taking a buck hasn’t been a problem. I passed lots of forkies and three points but was unable to get close enough to a legitimate 4by. A good friend found a nice rifle for me to use for deer and elk. It was made with 1:20 twist for conicals. Still a green mountain barrel.

My friend fixed me up with some 550g .502 (buffalo arms I suspect) conicals. I finally got it out and shot it. Went well. Put a scope on it to work up some loads. Groups shown using 90 g ffg by weight.

Since this year there will be no muzzleloader elk I was thinking of getting some smaller conicals. Any suggestions? I see several options from 420, 460, 495 g.

The .502 was easy to load. I don’t think I would want any tighter. I was also fixed up with some small black discs(not sure the name) that separate the bullet and powder.

I will try to load some pictures. Thanks in advance. PS I am not a consistent or good shooter.
B9F82648-0565-46F7-B780-FE3429871496.jpeg3CEC0C3B-A338-46FD-96BF-9CBC59305D91.jpeg
 
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brunse

brunse

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I plan to put something like this peep on it. Maybe with the fiber front sight that is on it??7E4CE4E3-4D25-4F46-A277-6CE833DD597A.jpeg
 
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brunse

brunse

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Circle indicates groups with scope adjustments in between. Blue first 2 at 50. Yellow next 2 at 50. Red last 2 at 100.

Yes I only shot it 6 times. I did run a few patches between each shot. Took my time. Enjoyed it more than I expected.
 

sabotloader

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I guess I really have some questions for you...

A good friend found a nice rifle for me to use for deer and elk. It was made with 1:20 twist for conicals. Still a green mountain barrel.
What caliber is the rifle? You are saying it is a 1-20 twist rifle and to me that would indicate that is a 45 cal. rifle. I do not hunt Colorado, but I thought the Colorado minimum caliber for elk was 50 cal. The barrel certainly looks like a factory GM barrel, but as far as I know GM has never produce a 1-20 barrel in 50 cal. You might want to check with Knight about that. All you need is the serial number on the right side of the barrel.

My friend fixed me up with some 550g .502 (buffalo arms I suspect) conicals. I finally got it out and shot it. Went well. Put a scope on it to work up some loads. Groups shown using 90 g ffg by weight.
You indicate 90 grains of powder by weight... which powder are you using? A load of 90 grains by weight and a 550 grain lead conical is a real hefty load. I am not sure the velocity that you might be shooting with your load and projectile, but I would believe with a true lead conical you may be building some really decent amount of lead fouling in your bore. Are the projectiles lubricated?

The Williams FP (Legend) Peep sight you have pictured will certain match up with the factory drilled holes on the receiver of the rifle, but to get it back into the stock you will probably need to make a significant modification the to the side of the stock. The factory stock is to think to allow the elevation bar of the sight to pass to the outside of the stock. There is another possibility the FP might interfere with the lifting of the bolt handle, but that is a really easy fix and it should be considered no big deal. You may want to consider a Williams WRGS peep or another option is the NECG Peep site designed to mount on a Weaver style scope block

This picture shows a NECG mounted on one of my Knight Mountaineer rifles.



I also change my front sight from the factory sight to a Williams set up with a Fire Sight hood. It gives me the image that I am looking through a 1X scope...



The .502 was easy to load. I don’t think I would want any tighter. I was also fixed up with some small black discs(not sure the name) that separate the bullet and powder.
The big thing to think about is that is a very heavy projectile - it needs to fit tight enough that it will not slip off the powder (move slightly up the barrel) while you are hunting with the rifle. Sometime many of the activities the rifle goes through while hunting could cause the bullet to dislodge. The small black item you speak of is a brand of wad of some sort. I use a 'shot card' made by Circle Fly with my loads.



This card really is important for me because it insulates the bottom of the lead bullet from the heat of the ignited powder. I am using T7 powder and it burns so hot it would melt the bottom of a lead conical again causing a leading problem in the bore.

With all of that said... nice looking target holes. The rifle will certainly shoot!
 
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granite7

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Nice shooting! I have a new mountaineer and I haven’t been out yet to try it. You mentioned lighter Bullets for mulies. I am going to try 250 & 300 Thor and Bullshop 460 conicals in mine.


I also change my front sight from the factory sight to a Williams set up with a Fire Sight hood. It gives me the image that I am looking through a 1X scope...
Thanks for adding that to the thread. I went with the weaver bases and NECG peep based on one of your old posts. I think you posted Brownells part numbers for that front ramp and hood somewhere. Will the factory fiber optic front be the right height for the NECG/weaver base setup?




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sabotloader

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Thanks for adding that to the thread. I went with the weaver bases and NECG peep based on one of your old posts. I think you posted Brownells part numbers for that front ramp and hood somewhere. Will the factory fiber optic front be the right height for the NECG/weaver base setup?
Yes, it will work well dependent on the weight of the projectile. The sight combination that comes on the rifle are for shooting normal weight sabot/bullet combinations. Shooting heavier conceals will probably require a lower front to get the muzzle higher on the target.
 
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brunse

brunse

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The rifle is a 50 cal. One of the GMs of Knight rifles(I think) had it put together for himself. Then moved on to some other variations. The bullets are lubed. I look forward to shooting it some more. I was thinking of getting a mixed lot of conicals from buffalo arms but noticed the website lists those lots as .503. I started the .502 550 with a short starter so I believe they are tight enough. I think the discs sabotloader illustrated are probably the ones I have. My friend found the rifle for me. He is a superior shooter. I suspect he still hold a few records at friendship (Indiana) where he lives. One of his similar rifles likes a bigger bullet with 94 g ffg (brand?? White powder maybe? I forget). He pretty much only shoots blackpowder as far as I can tell.

Mostly I’m looking for pros or cons of dropping 100 plus grains of bullet weight. When shooting a peep at deer I can’t imagine trajectory will matter much to me. Not sure I could hit something at 150 plus yards.
 
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brunse

brunse

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My friend had a fp on his rifle and had to whittle on the stock a little bit. Didn’t bother him much but I’m not sure he has to buy rifles nowadays. Since has had a fully adjustable peep made and will likely fix me up with his fp.

I thought I would use one of the peeps that fit on the weaver bases but they seem less adjustable. Although, With my expectations shooting that is not likely an issue. If I did go for one of those peeps that gets my head higher above the barrel I would possibly/likely need to replace the front sight???

Thanks for the replies.
 

sabotloader

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The rifle is a 50 cal. One of the GMs of Knight rifles(I think) had it put together for himself. Then moved on to some other variations. The bullets are lubed. I look forward to shooting it some more. I was thinking of getting a mixed lot of conicals from buffalo arms but noticed the website lists those lots as .503. I started the .502 550 with a short starter so I believe they are tight enough. I think the discs sabotloader illustrated are probably the ones I have. My friend found the rifle for me. He is a superior shooter. I suspect he still hold a few records at friendship (Indiana) where he lives. One of his similar rifles likes a bigger bullet with 94 g ffg (brand?? White powder maybe? I forget). He pretty much only shoots blackpowder as far as I can tell.

Mostly I’m looking for pros or cons of dropping 100 plus grains of bullet weight. When shooting a peep at deer I can’t imagine trajectory will matter much to me. Not sure I could hit something at 150 plus yards.
Is there a serial number on the right side of the barrel?

Gordy, of Knight, did have GM make some 1-24 twist Mountaineer barrels - 10 of them in fact. They do not have a serial number on the right side of the receiver/barrel but on the under side of the barrel they are hand engraved with the twist. If it has a Knight serial number like S00028?? it probably is a standard Knight.
 

sabotloader

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In Idaho I have to shoot full bore lead conicals during ML season. I hate it but that is the way it is - In Colorado you have mush better options than a big heavy lead conical. It still has to be full bore but there are definitely other choices.

I shoot a .503x460 MT Nex that Bull Shop makes. I shoot it with T7-2f - 90gr. by Volume of powder. Most tell me I am crazy because that creates a velocity of 1500fps at the muzzle. Most of the lead shooting guys would suggest staying below 1200 fps to prevent barrel leading. I also use the wad that I pictured above to prevent additional leading of the bore.

 
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brunse

brunse

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Is there a serial number on the right side of the barrel?

Gordy, of Knight, did have GM make some 1-24 twist Mountaineer barrels - 10 of them in fact. They do not have a serial number on the right side of the receiver/barrel but on the under side of the barrel they are hand engraved with the twist. If it has a Knight serial number like S00028?? it probably is a standard Knight.
 
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brunse

brunse

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S1 24007. I have not had it apart. I could be mistaken when I spoke with J Perry I thought he told me 1:20. Could be 1:24. Either way it probably shoots better than I’ll be able too😁 these are the discs and billets F98CF8DE-202A-4CBB-B860-B92A4E77B831.jpeg
 

sabotloader

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S1 24007. I have not had it apart. I could be mistaken when I spoke with J Perry I thought he told me 1:20. Could be 1:24. Either way it probably shoots better than I’ll be able too😁 these are the discs and billets
Yep. I sent him a text earlier in the day and have not heard back from him yet also sent one to Gordy who originally ordered the 1/24's - but I really believe it is a 1/24.... Which I am saying right now is a great twist in a 50 cal. Doc White started the 1/24 twist and using really heavy conicals ages ago in his White Rifles. They won several shooting competitions back in the day.

I do not recognize those wads, but I highly recommend them. They also serve to keep the conical bullet lubricant which can melt from contaminating the top portion of your powder load.
 
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brunse

brunse

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I imagine you are correct. 1:24 If I was to try something lighter with a flatter trajectory out to 150 yards... not lead.. suggestions? Why measure by volume rather than weight? I use a 209 primer does that change powder suggestions? How many times can the red primer jacket be used reasonably?

Thanks again
 

sabotloader

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I imagine you are correct. 1:24 If I was to try something lighter with a flatter trajectory out to 150 yards... not lead.. suggestions? Why measure by volume rather than weight? I use a 209 primer does that change powder suggestions? How many times can the red primer jacket be used reasonably?

Thanks again
I do think it will turn out to be a 1-24, but it really doesn't matter you are golden either way.

Your serial number... S1 24007 tells the story - S = stainless then 1 space 24 says the 1-24 twist and 007 suggests you got rifle #7 of the 10 sample barrels made

With black powder and bp subs, weighing really doesn't make that much difference. If I were making money shooting targets that night be another matter you would want to be as consistent as possible,

BP and BP subs, even BH-209 which really is basically a true smokeless powder have different standards for manufacture than real smokeless powder. A grain of smokeless can make a huge difference in the performance of a given bullet. On the other hand BP and BP subs the variation is much greater before any noticeable difference will be gained. In my readings it might take 5-10 grains of difference to see a difference through a chronograph.

Also know in the Black Powder world there is a really big difference in grains by volume and grains by weight. If a suggested BP load indicates 100 gr, by volume - in most case 100 grains by weight would be a completely different amount of powder.

Copied from Western Powders web site...

Volumetric Units are NOT the same as weight in grains. Blackhorn is used by volume and therefore the charge is a measurement by volume. A volume charge is measured with a standard black powder measure. It is not weighed and a setting of 100 does not mean that you have 100 grains by weight, not even black powder. The loading densities of all substitutes and grades of black powder are different. The same volume of any will yield different weights of powder.

For actual hunting when I was using the Red FPJ's I would always use a new one. For shooting at the range I have used them 6-7 times before they leaked so much they were a pain in the rear. The life of a FPJ could also depend on the primer being used and the load being shot. Actually it did not take me long to switch to a bare primer system and toss the FPJ's.
 
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brunse

brunse

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Thanks for the great info. Maybe I’ll get her shot again this weekend and share it with you. I want to order some lighter bullets. 👍
 
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brunse

brunse

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No. I like the idea of the Lehigh conicals I’ve seen you post about. I’m not a cheap skate... but if a 420 g no excuses has a similar trajectory out to 150....Or if I got an adjustable peep that I felt good with at 200... why spend the extra cash? This year I am only hunting deer with it so I don’t feel like I have to have a big bullet
 
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brunse

brunse

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Jason, my friend I grew up that is giving me advise, doesn’t use jackets as far as I can tell. His last name is day and he’s anal about shooting. He’s the one that found the rifle through mr Perry. He likes bp and lead. Shoots a lot of matches out to 1000 yards I think.

I’m really an Archery hunter but those big Miley’s are too smart for my lack of patience. I seem to get to 100 yards well enough but not 50!!
 
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