KUIU Super Down vs. Western Mountaineering Badger, 15-degree bags

[Murtfree]

Looks like 67"/58"/41" on Kodiak specs inside. 64"/59"/? for KUIU. Anyone know the footbox specs? They don't list it.

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I was seriously looking at the Kodiak because of the larger shoulder measurement in a zero degree bag but it ultimately came down to price. Not sure if WM ever has any sales, but the Kuiu 0 degree long to my door with discount was $550

 

[passinggas33]

@Murtfree - what code did you use to get the price down to $550. That makes the Kuiu much more enticing.

 

[Murtfree]

@Murtfree - what code did you use to get the price down to $550. That makes the Kuiu much more enticing.

It was the 20% birthday discount on one item they email to you on your birthday ....plus I had a $50 discount to apply from past purchases. The $750 price dropped to $600 minus the $50. I almost bought one back when they had the 15% discount at the PA Outdoors show but realized my birthday was coming up

 

[sneaky]

I was seriously looking at the Kodiak because of the larger shoulder measurement in a zero degree bag but it ultimately came down to price. Not sure if WM ever has any sales, but the Kuiu 0 degree long to my door with discount was $550

Not sure what some of the retailers are selling WM for, but they are pretty strict on MAP pricing. I was lucky and bought mine at Campsaver at one of their parking lot sales and basically got it at cost. The WM rep had given them permission to mark down some of their slower moving bags. Probably a once in a lifetime deal.

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[Murtfree]

Not sure what some of the retailers are selling WM for, but they are pretty strict on MAP pricing. I was lucky and bought mine at Campsaver at one of their parking lot sales and basically got it at cost. The WM rep had given them permission to mark down some of their slower moving bags. Probably a once in a lifetime deal.

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I believe I saw a 30% off sale last April or May at Campsaver on WM bags listed in one of the forums. I didn’t know if that was a yearly thing or just a once and done. I was considering waiting to see if they would run it again which would have put the WM Kodiak (MRP $730) around the same price as I paid for the Kuiu......ultimately decided to take the sure bet with the Kuiu now

 

[sneaky]

I believe I saw a 30% off sale last April or May at Campsaver on WM bags listed in one of the forums. I didn’t know if that was a yearly thing or just a once and done. I was considering waiting to see if they would run it again which would have put the WM Kodiak (MRP $730) around the same price as I paid for the Kuiu......ultimately decided to take the sure bet with the Kuiu now

Yeah, they usually have a few at their parking lot sales, but their past sales you have to be there in person to pick them up. I used to live about 20min from them so I always had a heads up what was gonna be in the sale.

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[robby denning]

Hey all, I like to include member's experiences in my final written review for Rokslide.com when possible.

For this part, it's particularly on durability of the bags as that is so unrealistic for a writer to say much about until a season or two of use.

I have @Blockcaver 's comments on the KUIU, Anyone have any comments on the Western Mountaineering Badger (that specific model only please) that I could include? So you don't need to dig it up, here is what I have from Blockcaver:

"I've had my KUIU 15° Superdown bag since they came out in 2014...

I have over 200 nights in the bag to date and it is holding up well. (from an email: the only down leaking is in a few seams, no holes, and it's still holding 12" loft. The lettering is worn off but no holes. "

Honest feedback only!

Thanks guys

 

[Archeryshooter]

Robby & Everyone, I'm newer to forums and appreciate all the experience and knowledge you guys provide! I live in SW MT and purchased the SG Chilkoot 15 last year based off of your review.

Everyone probably knows this already but I found the following interesting, the SG 15 bag's comfort rating is 21 with a limit rating of 8. So I guess they decided to call it a "15 degree bag" because it it in the middle and sounds good? Another interesting tidbit is that the Chilkoot 0 degree bag's comfort rating is 14 and the limit is 0 and they call it a "0 degree bag" instead of a "7 degree bag", maybe because it also sounds better?

I'm not trying to talk poorly about SG and I really like my SG bag, it's just that there seems to be a slight variance in the way the bags were named, therefore, I think there is a "better bang for your buck" with the 15 degree version; as far as ratings and cost are concerned as well as weight to warmth ratio as noticed in the photos. This appears to make the SG 15 a slightly higher rated bag, at least by the numbers but not real world tested, than the current bags being reviewed and may be a "sleeper" of a deal in the current market.

weight/temperature ratio
- Chilkoot 15 (35oz ) = 2.3oz per 1 degree
- Chilkoot 0 (42oz) = 6.0oz per 1 degree (at a 7 degree mean rating to match the 15 bag temp rating)

**Another thing I noticed is that the 0 degree bag weighs 7oz more than the 15 degree bag so that is a 1oz to 1.14 degree ratio between the two bags (15 degrees and 7 degrees), or, the 7oz weight gain provides 8 degrees of warmth.**

I look forward to the rest of your testing! Thanks for letting me know what I'm missing or misunderstanding about what I've read and stated.

 

[sneaky]

Robby & Everyone, I'm newer to forums and appreciate all the experience and knowledge you guys provide! I live in SW MT and purchased the SG Chilkoot 15 last year based off of your review.

Everyone probably knows this already but I found the following interesting, the SG 15 bag's comfort rating is 21 with a limit rating of 8. So I guess they decided to call it a "15 degree bag" because it it in the middle and sounds good? Another interesting tidbit is that the Chilkoot 0 degree bag's comfort rating is 14 and the limit is 0 and they call it a "0 degree bag" instead of a "7 degree bag", maybe because it also sounds better?

I'm not trying to talk poorly about SG and I really like my SG bag, it's just that there seems to be a slight variance in the way the bags were named, therefore, I think there is a "better bang for your buck" with the 15 degree version; as far as ratings and cost are concerned as well as weight to warmth ratio as noticed in the photos. This also may make the SG a slightly higher rated bag than the current bags being tested and maybe a "sleeper" of a deal in the current market.

weight/temperature ratio
- Chilkoot 15 (35oz ) = 2.3oz per 1 degree
- Chilkoot 0 (42oz) = 6.0oz per 1 degree (at a 7 degree mean rating to match the 15 bag temp rating)

**Another thing I noticed is that the 0 degree bag weighs 7oz more than the 15 degree bag so that is a 1oz to 1.14 degree ratio between the two bags (15 degrees and 7 degrees), or, the 7oz weight gain provides 8 degrees of warmth.**

Let me know what I'm missing or misunderstanding about what I'm reading.

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You need to use either the comfort rating for each bag, or the limit rating for each bag. The 7deg "average" is what I'm referencing from your example. SG just calls it a 15deg bag because that's the niche temp range it is targeted at. If they called it an 8 degree bag it would confuse people looking for a 3 season bag. If you do a comparison of down cost in each bag you get 22.4oz@$24.51/oz $549for the 15 deg bag, and 29.1oz@$20.58/oz $599 on the 0deg. Some guys just get way more flexible use out of a 15deg bag, which is a 3 season bag, than they do out of a 0deg bag which is more of a dedicated winter bag. I know my 0 deg WM bag gets far less use than my 20deg quilt does every year.

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[Archeryshooter]

You need to use either the comfort rating for each bag, or the limit rating for each bag. The 7deg "average" is what I'm referencing from your example. SG just calls it a 15deg bag because that's the niche temp range it is targeted at. If they called it an 8 degree bag it would confuse people looking for a 3 season bag. If you do a comparison of down cost in each bag you get 22.4oz@$24.51/oz $549for the 15 deg bag, and 29.1oz@$20.58/oz $599 on the 0deg. Some guys just get way more flexible use out of a 15deg bag, which is a 3 season bag, than they do out of a 0deg bag which is more of a dedicated winter bag. I know my 0 deg WM bag gets far less use than my 20deg quilt does every year.

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I agree with you and find it interesting that SG isn't consistent in the rating to naming process used between the two bags.

 

[sneaky]

I agree with you and find it interesting that SG isn't consistent in the rating to naming process used between the two bags.

Agreed. You really have to dig into the EN ratings tests for each bag to cut through the marketing fluff and hype. The tests don't lie. I think more guys would be better off doing that than trusting the manufacturer's claims.

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[Archeryshooter]

Agreed. You really have to dig into the EN ratings tests for each bag to cut through the marketing fluff and hype. The tests don't lie. I think more guys would be better off doing that than trusting the manufacturer's claims.

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You are right again. I called SG a while back when I was looking into all of this and they said that the numbers were from bags that had been sent to the University of Kansas (I think) for independent accurate testing and transparency because of the lack of industry rating standards and testing.

 

[sneaky]

Yeah, it's either Kansas or Kansas St that does the bag and sleeping pad testing. The European manufacturers have been getting tested for years, we're just playing catchup here.

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[robby denning]

Robby & Everyone, I'm newer to forums and appreciate all the experience and knowledge you guys provide! I live in SW MT and purchased the SG Chilkoot 15 last year based off of your review.

Everyone probably knows this already but I found the following interesting, the SG 15 bag's comfort rating is 21 with a limit rating of 8. So I guess they decided to call it a "15 degree bag" because it it in the middle and sounds good? Another interesting tidbit is that the Chilkoot 0 degree bag's comfort rating is 14 and the limit is 0 and they call it a "0 degree bag" instead of a "7 degree bag", maybe because it also sounds better?

I'm not trying to talk poorly about SG and I really like my SG bag, it's just that there seems to be a slight variance in the way the bags were named, therefore, I think there is a "better bang for your buck" with the 15 degree version; as far as ratings and cost are concerned as well as weight to warmth ratio as noticed in the photos. This appears to make the SG 15 a slightly higher rated bag, at least by the numbers but not real world tested, than the current bags being reviewed and may be a "sleeper" of a deal in the current market.

weight/temperature ratio
- Chilkoot 15 (35oz ) = 2.3oz per 1 degree
- Chilkoot 0 (42oz) = 6.0oz per 1 degree (at a 7 degree mean rating to match the 15 bag temp rating)

**Another thing I noticed is that the 0 degree bag weighs 7oz more than the 15 degree bag so that is a 1oz to 1.14 degree ratio between the two bags (15 degrees and 7 degrees), or, the 7oz weight gain provides 8 degrees of warmth.**

I look forward to the rest of your testing! Thanks for letting me know what I'm missing or misunderstanding about what I've read and stated.

View attachment 166161View attachment 166162

Hey, I don't think you're missing anything, and is why I like to test the bags myself in real conditions. Ratings, even EN, are just guidelines to me.

Thanks for the great computations! Never thought about it that way..

 

[robby denning]

I agree with you and find it interesting that SG isn't consistent in the rating to naming process used between the two bags.

Neither is WM, check FAQ and "How accurate....": https://www.westernmountaineering.com/faqs/

T comfort of 23 while KUIU shows T Comfort as 27

KUIU sends theirs to Kansas too, and I believe so does WM

Again, that's why I try to sleep in them before I risk a hunt, and add to that we all sleep differently it's no wonder one user loves his, another hates his. It's like boots, user-dependent for sure.

 

[Kevin_t]

Regarding WM .. it is important to note that many of their bags existed long before the EN ratings and were the result of their real world data. Most are pretty consistent when viewed through EN as somewhere between Comfort and Limit. It would not make sense to start calling the 20 degree bag a 26 degree or a 14 degree all of sudden.

 

[robby denning]

Regarding WM .. it is important to note that many of their bags existed long before the EN ratings and were the result of their real world data. Most are pretty consistent when viewed through EN as somewhere between Comfort and Limit. It would not make sense to start calling the 20 degree bag a 26 degree or a 14 degree all of sudden.

thanks Kevin
did you see my post on "durability" above? Wondering if anyone has extensive multi-season use on a Badger and how's it holding up.

 

[Kevin_t]

I don’t own a Badger . Nathan has had an Antelope for a long time .
Kevin


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[Archeryshooter]

Neither is WM, check FAQ and "How accurate....": https://www.westernmountaineering.com/faqs/

T comfort of 23 while KUIU shows T Comfort as 27

KUIU sends theirs to Kansas too, and I believe so does WM

Again, that's why I try to sleep in them before I risk a hunt, and add to that we all sleep differently it's no wonder one user loves his, another hates his. It's like boots, user-dependent for sure.

Thanks for the link and for checking my thoughts, that’s how good the community is!

 

[Archeryshooter]

Yeah, it's either Kansas or Kansas St that does the bag and sleeping pad testing. The European manufacturers have been getting tested for years, we're just playing catchup here.

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Thanks again and that’s good to know. Glad we’re finally catching up; better late than never I suppose!