Learning to call elk

[JonS]

I've played with a hoochie mama and am bored, got a hyper lip and can do ok with it, but want hands free.
I can't bugle or cow call on my own but am toying with the idea of archery hunting and want to learn to call.
I've tried a few diaphragms and can't seem to get past the gag reflex.
What can I do to get over that hump and then learn to use the call.

I'll take any advice on getting it to stay in my mouth and then on tricks or tips you have for a newbie.
My plan is to play in the car on the 20-25 minute commute to teach knuckleheads middle school math.

I appreciate any advice or words of wisdom and will listen to all anyone has to say.
What's the best call to start with?
Thanks in advance,
Jon

 

[samj123]

Hi Jon,
I had the same issue when I started a couple years ago. I thought it wasn't for me, until I trimmed the tape around the outside of the call. Once I was able to get a comfortable fit towards the front of my mouth, I was in business.
Dig around on YouTube a little. Here is a good start -

I think Jason Phelps appearance on the MeatEater podcast was really good too.
Once you have an idea about what you're doing, a couple weeks of that 20 minute commute will do wonders.
As far as what to start with I really think it totally depends on how you call and what works best. I would try calls from a few different brands. Different thicknesses and reed types you can only sort out from practice.

 

[JonS]

I heard that podcast and that sparked my interest for sure. May get one and do some trimming, I have one somewhere, forget the manufacturer, thanks for the video.

 

[Backyard]

Check out anything Elknut has put out. Tons of videos of how to's. I know he has quite a few instructional vids up on wapititalk. He's called the elknut for a reason...

 

[Bowhuntone]

Check out different diaphragms to find one with a narrow width should help. That and practice with where it sits on the roof of your mouth try moving it forward this is where trimming or a narrower diaphragm will help.


Also for the ELKNUT

 

[ElkNut1]

Thanks for the support guys!

Jon, we have a 1 hour DVD on Mastering Elk Calls, you can see it on our site, http://stores.elknut.com/mastering-elk-calls/

It will cover just about everything & anything on mouth reed use with & without a bugle. It will share selection for your specific pallet & the reed that will work best for you. It will share reed location & tongue location for the various sounds you will want to imitate.

Also consider the ElkNut APP, this is priceless for mouth reed use & you can Record yourself & Play back to Real Elk Sounds using your same practice sounds side by side. It will show you where you may need work at certain stages of your calling. It will cover all the needed Bull & Cow Sounds. The Record Feature is found after every sound making it easy to practice by. A definition is also provided with each sound so you know the message being sent by each specific Bugle or Cow Call. There is a Tips section which shares a variety of options to choose from depending on the elk encounter you are faced with, these Tips are after each elk sound. Tons of info on it at your finger tips, it will aid you in cutting your learning curve. Here's a photo of a sound & the Record Feature shown! Let us know if you have any questions! Good Luck!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[JonS]

Thanks for the tips, I'll see what I can find with a narrower reed plate.
Someone else recommended I spray chloraseptic or some numbing agent on the roof of my mouth to start and get used to it.
Any other tips to try?
Thanks a bunch, app looks cool!

 

[ElkNut1]

Jon, can you brush your teeth without gagging much? Not your tongue but your teeth. Thanks!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Jon S]

With my grandfather as my dentist, you bet! 2-4x a day since I was a youngin!

 

[timberland]

I was told to carry the call in my mouth, tucked in my cheek. Don't try to call, just throw it in, move it around once in a while. Get used to the feeling in your mouth without feeling like you have to spit it out or swallow.

 

[ElkNut1]

OK, thanks! Your issue isn't the reed it's your putting it too far back in your mouth or throat area. You need to start from the beginning & install the reed in the right area.



One thing to note is any hunter can use a narrow framed reed, doesn't matter if he has a wide palate or not. Reeds come in 1/2" & 5/8" wide frames but not anyone can use a wide 5/8" reed. If in doubt consider the 1/2" version first! Some wonder if they can learn to use a mouth reed? If you can brush your teeth without gagging then yes you can learn to use one!

Should I use a standard reed or a palate plate reed? Does it matter & what's the difference?

When using a Palate plate reed the part of the reed with the shed roof or dome goes up towards the palate & the latex faces towards front teeth, these type reeds are not intended to bend or shape to ones mouth, they are to be used as is. If non palate plate reed you'll generally notice a small bump on one side of the reed in the frame about center where tape covers top part of horseshoe. Most these reeds with this bump will face towards the palate not the tongue but quite possibly can work either way if a single reed. (this can vary from call maker to call maker) If double & triple reeds make sure the layering where you can see them stair step face up towards your palate not down for best results. These types of reeds can be shaped to ones mouth or at times slightly trimming of the tape for best fit & feel. Don't get carried away on the bending or you will have a saggy or lazy latex if bent in. If bent to your desired fit it may be necessary to pull apart the opening of the horseshoe open end to tighten latex to achieve like new condition.

Too, I like nibbling or chewing the tape that surrounds the frame on nearly every reed I use when it's new before putting on my tongue & lifting into place. This softens the tape like a wet T-shirt so it molds to your palate & dams all air from escaping as well as softens edges & corners so they aren't poking at your gums. Do not chew on the latex itself.

All this can take a minute or two depending on what's needed to soften material. The first time will take the longest & from there it's pretty easily done with continued use.


Before there's any bending, trimming or shaping on 'non' palate reeds you must know where the reed goes! Here are a few points to consider. The reed is not clamped down by your back teeth or any teeth for that matter. Now allow the right & left corners of the tape to slightly rest against top inside front teeth. The very front of the latex or horseshoe opening should be in the proximity of the ridge or cleft of your palate, the mouth reed itself does not touch your front teeth so it's actually 3/4" or so from teeth, only the corners of the tape should be touching inside of top teeth or gum line. You can use center of tongue as contact point on latex for all Cow & Bull sounds!

One of the easiest sounds to perform are cow sounds, use center of tongue if so desired with light to medium pressure & say Shhhhhhh softly, by adjusting air-flow, tongue tension and or position of tongue in a forward or backward motion very slightly you will achieve the desired tone. You want to practice this first before you move on to bull sounds. Take one step at a time, conquer it, then move to the next step towards bull sounds. One note with bull sounds is you will need to add your own voice inflections into most of these sounds, the mouth reed can only be counted on for those creative higher notes & raspy aggressive sounds, it's a learning process but easily done with the proper motivation & understanding that it will take a few practice sessions to get comfortable with the reed in ones mouth. This cannot be done as a 1st timer in one or two 5-10 minute sessions. Plan on 4 weeks of persistent practice 10 minutes a day, some are quicker learner than others. (grin) Give yourself a chance & be persistent & you can succeed! Hope this helps out!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Deadeye11]

Thanks Paul! You truly are an ElkNut! I appreciate the tips!

 

[Jon S]

Have to agree, thanks a bunch! Ordered a set today from Phelps, seemed like a great guy on the Rinella pod cast and wanted to support.
Said shipping may be a bit, but gonna give it a go and will be back with questions as I continue the learning to sound like the wily wapiti!

 

[ElkNut1]

Jon, that's great! Hope one of the reeds is the Gray Amp! It's one of my favorites from Jason, it's an All Purpose reed which means it's great for both Cow & Bull sounds! I highly recommend it!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[JonS]

Jason recommended the pitch black elk so I ordered that set, asked about any discounts and they replied they'd send two orange for my daughters, may try one of those as well.
Any thoughts on the black vs the Gray Amp?

 

[ElkNut1]

With Jason discussing your experience & needs I'm sure he recommended to you what he felt was best! Personally I like a little more back bone to a reed for my bull sounds but still want it delivering acceptable cow talk too. The Gray Amp allows this. The Black one is a touch softer in the latex so doesn't appeal to me even though it's a very good reed for its intended purpose. Good luck!

ElkNut/Paul

 

[Brendan]

You'll need to try different reeds to find out what work for you. Sort of like boots and insoles - everyone is different in terms of shape of their mouth, etc. My favorites are Phelps Gray and White Amp, then Rocky Mountain / Bugling Bull Red and Brown. All are Palate Plate calls. Tried some of Corey Jacobsen's calls, and just couldn't get them to work for me. Your mileage may vary, but try a bunch unless the first couple you get just work awesome.

I do also use an open reed call (Phelps and Primos Hyperlip) in certain scenarios.

In terms of Calling Strategy - I'm a fan of Elknut and Chris Roe / Roe Hunting Resources.

It can be done - when I started calling I couldn't keep a reed in my mouth without gagging, later the same year I hunted, called in several bulls, and called in and killed mine on my last day to hunt.

 

[longspeak74]

Jon - I know when I started out, I had a terrible gag reflex. I started using a domed call and that made a big difference. Using Wapiti River calls now. Good luck!

 

[NDGuy]

Following this thread! I ordered up my reeds and got your app Elknut! Time to practice.

 

[corylee4870]

I would recommend the ElkNut app & Roe Hunting Resources.

I would also recommend several of the Phelps calls. They all fit the same, but take different amounts of air and tongue pressure. You will find one that works for you.


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