Let's start working on solutions

[Dustin the wind]

To be honest non of these orders will matter in a few weeks. Good weather is coming and people are very tired of this shit. If you are healthy and do not have contact with vulnerable people, you can make your own mind up and go out still taking precautions. Also, the overall death rate of this thing is much lower and a lot of people are going to look dumb when we test for antibodies.

 

[*zap*]

Bad situation with no 'good' solutions is what I see. What I hear is two weeks to peak and then 8-10 weeks until the shut downs are relaxed.......but this will be politicized forever.....who knows what type of 'real' changes we will see from the kung flu mania before this is actually over.

I think that we were economically doomed from this with or without 'suggested' shutdowns. With shutdowns people can blame the government for economic doom, if there were no shutdowns and the death toll was 5x greater (or more) people would freak and the economic fallout would be similar......then they would blame government for not shutting down things.

The Trump haters are loving that they can blame Trump either way......and they are hoping the kung flu provides a way to beat him in November.

(JMO) The world economy was screwed before kung flu and kung flu could be the nails for the economic coffin or could have been released to provide a 'reason' for what was coming anyway...

There is a pretty significant ocd 'germaphobe' % of the population and those folks will be freaking out for years from this.....then the next group will be 'cautious'.....that will make up maybe 30-40% of the national population which will choose not to 'put themselves @ risk' and there will be economic fallout from that alone....for quite a while.

I do not see how we will have 'normal' for the rest of 2020......massive 'almost nationwide' shutdown/stay @ home and the national death #'s keep doubling every 3.5 days......today around 10,000 total........considering the total population that is not a very high #.......actually 10x that # is not high for 330+ million........I wish the # was ZERO.....

Disaster to the world economy may end with widespread wars, ww2 was around 80 million dead......and the global population was around 1/2......back then.

Like I said earlier:
I am interested in hearing all viable solutions and I want to know the exit strategy from worldwide/national shut down.

 

[2blade]

Coronavirus Scam: Medical Insider Exposes Method of Hyping COVID-19

An anonymous medical insider has exposed how the COVID-19 coronavirus scam works, by inflating case numbers and hyping a (non-existent) threat.

thefreedomarticles.com

 

[Rich M]

Why all the "you", "they" ? You have separated people into they and them groups. We are Americans and we have freedoms. No one who is for financial security is anti kindness or emotionally detached from others health concerns. All you have done is divide groups from opinions that differ from yours.

You make a very good point. I have created groups and drawn a line, for better or for worse.

I've also learned a bit about myself and how some events in history happened - the staunch belief of one person in something and in someone else, it's polar opposite. It's been an interesting internal thing.

Politics is one thing - red vs blue, donkeys and elephants. I can live with that - I understand how it feels when someone you don't like is in office. Can relate. The dry heave upon hearing the voice or whatever they try to pack into a bill. That's one sens of right or wrong, morals, ethics, etc.

When someone says that everything should be open, the virus should be allowed to run it's course, and that people's lives are just statistics, it rattles my cage. That talk implies absolutely no concern for others - health or financial or anything. We are supposed to be in this together and then we're not.

The thing that one with discord could impact so many innocent lives. One joker on an airline or at a spring break party changes lives, some irreparably. That person puts personal freedoms ahead of the freedoms of the country - The country stands up for the rights of others vs whining about our "own rights".

They've traced a bunch of infected cases in my state to NY and infected people flying from there to here - maybe that's why I'm more sensitive?

 

[Rs3003]

The OP stated “big government gets one shot at this.” They had their shot and failed terribly in the very beginning by not taking this seriously. They had no plan at all. If America is hoping for the government to make this right, we may lose a lot of what we had. Some things we won’t realize for years down the road. I understand we all want to get back to normal. The effects of NO quarantine would equal mass death. When this breaks and everyone gathers for the next family/friend gathering and everyone is in attendance you may only then realize the quarantine was worth it.

 

[Rich M]

Zap - I see the recovery as being tied to the willingness of people to act as they did before. Doing stuff, spending money.

Rs3 - It was always a no-win situation for the government. Folks were against the initial travel ban and now are attacking cause it wasn't sooner. Everything gets 2nd guessed and it is an unprecedented thing - world wide. wow.

"When this breaks and everyone gathers for the next family/friend gathering and everyone is in attendance you may only then realize the quarantine was worth it. " Couldn't say it any better than that.

 

[Gobbler36]

My solutions is for people to make decisions for their OWN SAFETY, and stop wanting someone else to look after you. Take whatever risk the individual is willing to take and live with whatever the consequences are!

People do have a right not to be exposed. When they decide to hibernate inside they won’t be exposed will they? Amazing how personal choice can protect you

Also friends have been infected. However since they take care of their bodies and don’t smoke, drink, and stuff their face with double quarter pounders everyday they all got over it like a cold! People need to care for their own health best they can, and once again stop asking the medical field to reverse the damage they do to themselves. Want me to see people’s health as value? Let them value it THEMSELVES FIRST.

Why ya think we so unhealthy as a nation, one of the worst health wise?? It’s because we afford people to not care for themselves, we got you. Govt gonna supply your healthcare you don’t worry we got you. If ya keep feeding the bear sooner or later he dnt know how to hunt for himself.

Also, I ain’t getting ANY EXTRA MONEY!! I’m fortunate enough to be one of the ones that pay into the system and dnt get anything!! I’m also still working due to being in part of the refining business.

I’d rather not burn the house down to kill the rat

Have fun with ya govt check. I’m sure you complained when Obama gave out money and phones but now it’s ok. Amazing how fast a conservative changes when the money is coming to them. Also, govt can’t give anything it doesn’t take from somewhere else

Nobody stand on principle anymore. It’s why we falling behind. Won’t be long we will be 2nd or 3rd. In a time of crisis we donate our guns to be melted down and hoard toilet paper.




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Amen amen
Oh one more time AMEN!

I don’t needthe govt to tell me what is risky for me and my family I am fully capable of evaluating circumstances for ourselves and not telling us what to do and what we can’tdo, these mandontory lockdowns and stay at home orders are the most alarming side effects from this pandemic!

 

[pk_]

What’s kind of crazy is I can scroll thru this thread (and others about this) and ‘like’ two different posts with two completely different opinions that contradict each other. This is real complex. I am glad I don’t have to make decisions for anyone other than me and mine, not in any sort of leadership role professionally, this is basically a no win, lesser of two evil situation in my mind.

Sorry I still don’t have a real solution. The problem with letting people go back to work and life is that people are either 1) too ignorant or 2) too arrogant to do so safely... IMO

 

[Bobbyboe]

All anyone has to do is look at the death rates of Western Europe. If our hospitals get overrun we could be looking at 8-12% death rates just like many western European countries, who didn’t take it serious.

If overrun, rural America where hospital staff is not sufficiently trainer nor equipped for this could see death rates higher than that. With hospitalization rates running 20-30% it would happen quickly for small town heal

I don’t like the economy being shut down either, but I’d rather shut down for a month or two than have our health system overrun. I just hope that when this is done, we as Americans can learn from this, much like South Korea with SARS, and be better prepared next time.

Big cities have reefer trucks for housing the bodies of Covid patients that die. Sure hope it doesn’t hit your town. You can burry your head in the sand all you want, but this has the potential of being very serious.

 

[EastMT]

More full refer trucks while the rest of us go about our business, middle finger in the air isn’t a solution I’m good with.

 

[pk_]

At least we have the reefers and a gov. That is trying. I have a friend stuck in another country he was over there helping his family. Family members now dying, government will not come pick up the bodies they are being brought to the street. Awful stuff man just awful.

 

[Dos Perros]

So....no.
Got it.

Alright, got a good amount of essential work done today so I have some time to peel off here.

"The overall cumulative COVID-19 associated hospitalization rate is 4.6 per 100,000, with the highest rates in persons 65 years and older (13.8 per 100,000) and 50-64 years (7.4 per 100,000). These rates are similar to what is seen at the beginning of an annual influenza epidemic."

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC is responding to the novel (new) coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.

www.cdc.gov

They link to the NCHS which maintains the death data.

Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

Granted these numbers will undoubtedly go up, but:

So far only 65 Americans 44 years of age or lower have died of COVID-19. Some 29,000 Americans in the same age classes died of all causes.

In my lazy search for information I'm unable to determine how many of these folks had existing morbidities that contributed to their deaths. I recall a recent study that pegs the overall death rate at 0.66% which an extreme bias towards older folks, that 94% of deaths had existing morbidities. I also recall a study out of Italy that said 60% of the people that "died" of COVID-19 would have died this year anyway.

So, balls in your court bud. I can digest meaningful data if you share it.

 

[mfllood3800]

You make a very good point. I have created groups and drawn a line, for better or for worse.

I've also learned a bit about myself and how some events in history happened - the staunch belief of one person in something and in someone else, it's polar opposite. It's been an interesting internal thing.

Politics is one thing - red vs blue, donkeys and elephants. I can live with that - I understand how it feels when someone you don't like is in office. Can relate. The dry heave upon hearing the voice or whatever they try to pack into a bill. That's one sens of right or wrong, morals, ethics, etc.

When someone says that everything should be open, the virus should be allowed to run it's course, and that people's lives are just statistics, it rattles my cage. That talk implies absolutely no concern for others - health or financial or anything. We are supposed to be in this together and then we're not.

The thing that one with discord could impact so many innocent lives. One joker on an airline or at a spring break party changes lives, some irreparably. That person puts personal freedoms ahead of the freedoms of the country - The country stands up for the rights of others vs whining about our "own rights".

They've traced a bunch of infected cases in my state to NY and infected people flying from there to here - maybe that's why I'm more sensitive?

I understand the reckless behavior of some, but it isn't all. To regulate all because of some isn't the right thing to do either. This is a crossroad of decisions with no "good" answer, but only 1 right answer.
If you want to know why I am skeptical of gov regulation, using times like this to infringe on my freedoms, well here ya go:

The Government removes Bibles from schools, evolution is introduced. Then Government tells us God isn't allowed in schools. Then we cant pray in Jesus name. Then we cant pray at all. They call it separation of church and state.

Then the Government allows the killing of unborn babies. They call it a woman's choice.

Then the Government allows the IRS to target Christian Conservative business and individuals. We saw a Baker sued for standing up for his belief. Then the Government tells us we have to accept homosexuality and even marry these who's life styles we disagree with. The Government calls this civil rights for all.

Then Government tells us we cant spank our children. The Government tries to regulate home schooling where we can have the influence of our choice on our own kids. Schools are now teaching social, moral and even sexual lessons to our kids. The Government says it takes a village to raise children.

Then the Government tells you that you can't meet for church anymore? They call it safety and the responsible thing to do.

The pattern of this government doesn't sit well with me or many Christians at all.
If you're a liberal, non biblical moral atheist, well then the Government is your best friend.
Christian rights and freedoms have dissapeared while others have grown.
This is how many see it.

 

[sasquatch]

Alright, got a good amount of essential work done today so I have some time to peel off here.

"The overall cumulative COVID-19 associated hospitalization rate is 4.6 per 100,000, with the highest rates in persons 65 years and older (13.8 per 100,000) and 50-64 years (7.4 per 100,000). These rates are similar to what is seen at the beginning of an annual influenza epidemic."

Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

CDC is responding to the novel (new) coronavirus (COVID-19) outbreak.

www.cdc.gov

They link to the NCHS which maintains the death data.

Provisional Death Counts for Coronavirus Disease 2019 (COVID-19)

National Center for Health Statistics

www.cdc.gov

Granted these numbers will undoubtedly go up, but:

So far only 65 Americans 44 years of age or lower have died of COVID-19. Some 29,000 Americans in the same age classes died of all causes.

In my lazy search for information I'm unable to determine how many of these folks had existing morbidities that contributed to their deaths. I recall a recent study that pegs the overall death rate at 0.66% which an extreme bias towards older folks, that 94% of deaths had existing morbidities. I also recall a study out of Italy that said 60% of the people that "died" of COVID-19 would have died this year anyway.

So, balls in your court bud. I can digest meaningful data if you share it.

How dare you! All we gonna learn by the end of this is that most of the people that died were the ones severely mistreating their body their whole life.

Then, maybe one day we can all also be told what to eat and drink and what activities we can partake in. You know, because it’s peoples mother, fathers, brothers, and sisters dying after all.

We must do everything we can to protect people from themselves and protect that sanctity of life.


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[flatlanderhuffandpuff]

Anyone looking for a "perfect solution" is kidding themselves. The perfection in this is that nature perfectly kills the weakest and some of the strongest alike. This shouldn't be a surprise to anyone. I dislike it as much as anyone but I'm not niave to the fact that this kind of thing is inevitable.

I have people close to me who work in hospitals who are taking it seriously and people close to me who are being told that if they catch it, it could kill them. I understand the fear going around. I agree with taking precautions.

With that being said, why do people think we can just shut down our economy without having very real world suffering as a result? I'm not an economist but I know enough you can just pause the world then hit play.

Money is just a medium for exchange for goods and services. The government sending you check is creating neither a good or service. That's the scariest thing in all of this to me. How few people see how our currency less legitimate every day. The longer this stretches we will see our way of life change in 1000 seemingly menial ways and some pretty big noticeable ones.

From a humanitarian perspective I don't want to think of the areas that we support with food, technical and medical aide in the years to come. On top of not having the infrastructure to deal with the pandemic they will not be able to get the help from us and Europe in the years to come.

 

[Foldem]

Honest question and I really don't know the answer. Why are the numbers so good in Sweden? They aren't doing anything besides social distancing and banning gatherings over 50 people. They are low/mid of the pack in Europe.

Same with Utah here in the US?

 

[mj23polaris]

Honest question and I really don't know the answer. Why are the numbers so good in Sweden? They aren't doing anything besides social distancing and banning gatherings over 50 people. They are low/mid of the pack in Europe.

Same with Utah here in the US?

Can't have a covid problem if you don't test

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[EastMT]

Honest question and I really don't know the answer. Why are the numbers so good in Sweden? They aren't doing anything besides social distancing and banning gatherings over 50 people. They are low/mid of the pack in Europe.

Same with Utah here in the US?

Utah isn’t really doing that great, they are about right in the middle. 22nd on the per capita at 57 cases per 100,000. Texas is about half that at 25 cases per 100,000, N.Y. is at 600 cases per 100,000. The best showing is Minnesota at 17 per 100,000.

As we don’t know the state of testing in all these places, it’s hard to know the accuracy but that’s what we have.

Sweden has about 10 million people, it’s nearing .001% of the population with the virus, at 7000, 10,000 is about .001%.

US is nearing .001% as well at 325 million people with 300,000 confirmed.

They’ve also lost over 500 on a bit over 7000 cases, that seems a bit high to me. That makes me think the health care is bad or many more are infected at 7% mortality per confirmed cases.

If you look at this map, the areas with low density are doing pretty well as they aren’t interacting with as many people, probably not hot spots of tourism. This is per capita, not by number infected

I have yet to be begin to procrastinate.

 

[JustJustin]

Honest question and I really don't know the answer. Why are the numbers so good in Sweden? They aren't doing anything besides social distancing and banning gatherings over 50 people. They are low/mid of the pack in Europe.

Same with Utah here in the US?

The death rate is what sets Utah apart. It has the lowest death rate in the US, aside from Wyoming, which has only ~200-300 cases. My theory behind Utah's low death rate is because ~90% of the population is Mormon, and Mormons smoke less, drink less alcohol, eat healthier, and do more exercise than the average American.

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[Rs3003]

I spent some time in Nam and upon returning to this wondrful country we didn't get anything but shit on.
We went suffered and yet not the VFW or any other MF org. said shit about us as we were just druggies, baby killers and POS.
We couldn't wear the uniform we proudly earned, prized and we didn't have PTSD for the shit that happened over there, so with that said remember the bigger Gov. gets the less you'll have in FREEDOMS. The more you use your rights some bitch is going to say your hurting them because they have rights(tit for tat).
I'm hoping the left and those POS' suffer more than anyone could imagine. We've lost so much because of all the rights of the left but fk'd the rights rights to be free. End of my .02

I do feel bad the way you were treated upon returning from Nam. It was terrible and no soldier/person should feel that way. Unfortunately we cannot go back and treat them better. I’m glad to see we as Americans have changed and hold soldiers very highly. My issue is with the “POS left”. To make it fair, you need to make every Dr., nurse, first responder how you feel about the “POS left” just in case they are one of these people. I’m sure you wouldn’t want your life saved by a “POS left”. End of my .02. Thank you for your service