Llama DIY Saddle and Panniers

Explorer

FNG
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
69
I am starting my first venture into packing with llamas. I have one 2.5 yr old male and I am looking for one or two more. I want to build my own saddles and panniers to save money. I searched the web and can't find any plans or measurements for saddles. Some designs look easy to build but I don't want to miss something and build a poorly fitting saddle.

Some people mentioned they build their own saddles and panniers. Can someone point me in the right direction and help me find some saddle and pannier plans? If plans are not available, does anyone know general measurements or rules of thumb for building llama saddles?
 

squirrel

WKR
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
324
Location
colorado
I returned your pm What materiel are you working with? And what style? Soft or rigid? Wood, steel, aluminum, other? Many ways to skin this cat and each has it's drawbacks.

Very important for me as a business to keep them all the same, lots of folks I know buy one of everything always looking for the perfect system, end up being a cluster@#$ at the trailhead as nothing is interchangeable and each goes on differently, for rookies this is terminal as it is all put on wrong. KISS is the best policy.

Pivot pack
DSC01639 by squirrel2012, on Flickr


Homemade design aluminum (not mine)
IMG_0705 by squirrel2012, on Flickr




My version
IMG_3647 by squirrel2012, on Flickr



Normal panniers

IMG_0191 - Copy by squirrel2012, on Flickr


some oversize panniers that hold 48 qt coolers or are ideal for about 3/4 bale of hay Many ways to skin a cat.

IMG_0701 - Copy by squirrel2012, on Flickr

IMG_5391 by squirrel2012, on Flickr

- - - Updated - - -

Ah if animals could only talk...

I think you need more bearing surface on your "back board" both width and length. And I think you will want to experiment with nice soft woods like you have now and once you have your patterns move to the toughest hardest wood you can find or make, oak at a minimum. Laminates from marine grade plywood may be the best. You need more padding than 1/2" of anything, add a pony pad in addition I like mine attached so there is no shifting of one without the entire thing shifting and getting my attention.

Two critical thing you seem to understand, keep it off the spine and it HAS to pivot, mine pivot at the "x" yours at the back board, if the animals could talk I would bet they would insist on both!
 
Last edited:
OP
E

Explorer

FNG
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
69
Thank you for the reply!

I started building two saddles similar to the timberline style. It is a crossbuck style. It seems simple, and the materials are easy to work with. It should be easy to take apart to replace parts or mix and match parts. Also, if it doesn't fit, I can replace a couple of the cross bucks and it will change the width between the backboards.
I found where someone was using poplar wood to make horse and mule saddles. It is easily available so that is what I am going to try. I might try oak or hickory in the future. The back boards measure 3.5"W x 12"L x 0.5" thick. For the cross bucks I am just using 1.5"×1.5" pine. For the crossbuck brace I am using 1"x1/8" aluminum angle. For the pivot bracket on the back board I will use aluminum U channel. I plan to glue 0.5” closed cell foam to the underside of the backboard. I found some made for kayak seats and it can be sculpted.
What do you think of this design?

Do you have any recommendations on wood type?

I see that some crossbuck designs have the pivot or hinge point in the center of the backboard and some have it about ⅔ across the backboard, being slightly off center and closer to the llama's spine. Where should I make the pivot point?

I am open to any critiques or advice.

Thanks!
 
OP
E

Explorer

FNG
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
69
Ok, that sounds good. Measuring my animals back, I think I need to keep it under 15" long and 4" wide to keep it from contacting the shoulders or hindquarters.
I found this site with saddle making plans, but some details are missing. https://www.highlinetrailllamasales.com/saddling
It looks like they are making it 14"x4".
I heard that the saddle needs to distribute the weight at a rate of at least 2lbs per square inch. Is this accurate?
Also, what about the curvature of the saddle? Is it needed? How do I determine the curve I need? With my current design, I was going to use a flat board with tapered ends then attach foam and shave the foam down where it creates pressure points on the llamas back.
Yes, I plan to use a saddle pad as well.
I was thinking about buying one from a saddle maker, probably Timberline. But I understand what you are saying about padding, that is good to know.
Thanks!
 

squirrel

WKR
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
324
Location
colorado
If I was a llama i think I would sing the praises of Sopris, especially since the llama does not have to pay for his saddle. It would APPEAR to my eyes to fit the most comfortably to any body shape. It would not stand up to abuse like others though. I have had renters break the welds on my steel saddles, can you imagine if they do that how my animals get treated?? Some things you are just better off not knowing.

PS You are kinda putting the cart before the horse. To save the real money you need to save on panniers. The reason being that I have saddles that are on their third llama, but most llamas will go through several sets of panniers in the course of their life. When you figure it out please let me know would ya? I'm still working on it.
 
Last edited:
OP
E

Explorer

FNG
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
69
That is good to know!!
Yes, I have been searching for bags that can work for panniers but haven't found something that I am happy with yet.
I like the white bags in your photos, what are they?
 

pods8 (Rugged Stitching)

WKR
Rokslide Sponsor
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
3,840
Location
Thornton, CO
I used llamas from squirrel a couple times last year and said I'd make him a pannier sample in 1000D per the details of his current ones (I made the buckles straps a tad longer since we fiddled with those a bit in the snow/cold, easier to buckle and then tighten down with a tail to pull on), finally got a chance to do that over the weekend:

8UEvYgcl.jpg
 
OP
E

Explorer

FNG
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
69
Thanks cdods!! Yes, I watched that video. I really like what they are doing and enjoy their videos! I may be overthinking it, but it seems like a few key things are left out.
 
OP
E

Explorer

FNG
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
69
Those are really nice looking panniers! Great job!!! That gives me some good ideas! Thank you!
 
OP
E

Explorer

FNG
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
69
So, I thought I would post an update. I build a couple saddles this past year. I have only owned and packed with llamas for a year now so I am not an expert but I want to share what I learned. This summer I used them about twice a week for short 3 mile hikes (with weight) until the fall when I used them for a 10 day hunt. The saddles seem to be holding up pretty well. Since they are working well I hope this can be useful to other people. There are better designs out there but I think it is pretty good and adaptable. I looked at a lot of different designs before I decided to make these. I got a lot of good advice from people on this forum and talked to a few commercial packers. A great resource was the archives of the The Backcounty Llama magizine https://packanimalmagazine.com/read.php. They had meticulous reviews of different saddles and talked about how saddles fit and how to properly distribute weight. The basic design is similar to the Timberline saddle from Rocky Mountain Llamas. Mine cost about $120 to $160 to build each and lots of time to make. You could do this cheaper depending on what components you use. You can buy RML's for $250 so you don't save that much building your own and you get their experience. The pros of mine are, I used the components I wanted, I can repair these, and make them fit an individual.

For panniers a friend gave me two military surplus bags and I looped some webbing through them and added buckles. They work ok. I also bought a set of the Timberline panniers from Rocky Mountain Llamas, and really like them.


Here is the information on the saddles. When selecting what wood to use, try to find the best hard wood you can. Laminating wood together would also be stronger. I think hickory would be great. I used poplar because it is what I could find and is supposed to be resistant to splitting.

On mine the bars are ½" thick and 14"×4". I cut the corners off and rounded the inside edges. From what I found, people recommended making the bars have enough surface area that you do not exceed 2 lbs per square inch with the load you are putting on the llama. They are made to have the pivot point about 2/3 off the center of the width of the bar toward the llamas back. It is not centered in the middle of the bar.

For crossbucks I used 1 ½" ×1 ½" poplar. (Note, different types of wood come in different actual dimensions even thought they may marked as a specific size) I coated the wood with alteast 3 coats of an outdoor polyurethane. The length of these can be changed to fit different llamas. It just needs to clear the spine. It seems like having about 3" between the bars when they pivot and rest on the llama's back usually clears the spine and keeps the bars resting on the meaty part of the back. You probably want to take some measurements of you llama and expect to make extra crossbucks to test different fit.

I used ¼" × 1 ½" aluminum U channel for the pivot bracket. You could use steel and you can used different dimension channel, it just has to match the dimensions of your crossbuck board and allow them to pivot.

For the cross brace I used aluminum angle fastened with stainless screws under the crossbuck.

For the crossbuck hardware I used ¼" stainless bolts and lock washers. For the bars I used ¼" stainless screws with rounded heads and counter sunk them so they would not create pressure points.

I used 2" webbing to connect the cinches then made my own as well as the breast collar out of 2" webbing and ½" felt.
I prefer the cinches I made rather than the horse cinches. Mine seem more comfortable, are cheaper, and are lighter.

I used adhesive closed cell foam used in kayak seats on the bars. You can use varying thickness to fit your llamas back. You can also shave the foam to fit the llama's back.

For a way to string llamas together, I used a bungie cord looped through a brass ring then looped around the crossbucks then zip tied in place.

Here are some of my photos.
20190810_154956.jpg
20190510_172748.jpg
20190510_172556.jpg
20190510_172536.jpg
20181231_101939.jpg
20181231_101256.jpg
20181231_101310.jpg
20190221_173320.jpg
20190224_155643.jpg
20190623_110358.jpg
 
Joined
Mar 19, 2017
Messages
422
Location
Wyoming
I used llamas from squirrel a couple times last year and said I'd make him a pannier sample in 1000D per the details of his current ones (I made the buckles straps a tad longer since we fiddled with those a bit in the snow/cold, easier to buckle and then tighten down with a tail to pull on), finally got a chance to do that over the weekend:

8UEvYgcl.jpg


Would you make more and whats the going price?
 
Top