Load Development and Cleaning Process

[NickyD]

Hello last year I got a muzzleloader and had issues attempting to develop a load for an elk hunt. As I went along in the process I noticed my groups got progressively worse. I believe this is due to a lack of a methodical approach to zeroing and cleaning my muzzleloader.

In order to simplify the process for this upcoming December season I got pelletized powder but will need to switch to loose powder for another Colorado hunt I plan to do next season.

My question is what is everyone’s methods for developing a load and ensuring you’re getting the most accuracy in the field? Should I be completely disassembling and cleaning between shots?

Any tips or material that I can read/watch would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Wapiti1]

In my Savage inline. With BH209 and lead conicals, I don't do any cleaning between shots. Usually 3-5 shots and let it cool down. Consistently sized bullets that fit my barrel made the largest difference in getting good groups. Next was dialing in the powder charge and it liked 90gr of BH209.

If I use T7 in that rifle, I swab every other shot. Swabbing every shot didn't improve it and it could go 3 shots, but loading that third gets tough. In this case, 100gr of T7 got the best groups.

In my underhammer, I use T7, and swab every other shot. That one likes 90gr T7 with a lubed wool wad under the bullet. No wad and the groups open about an inch. With the wad it will put 5 shots into 1.5" at 100 yards. Without the wad and 2-3" is as good as you get with a flyer here and there.

Both with a 420gr bullet I cast in my own design mold.

When I say swab, I am using a cotton patch made from a t-shirt type material that I wet with water and squeeze out any excess so it is damp, not wet and dripping. I swab once with that, and follow with one dry patch. Then load and shoot.

Jeremy

 

[NickyD]

In my Savage inline. With BH209 and lead conicals, I don't do any cleaning between shots. Usually 3-5 shots and let it cool down. Consistently sized bullets that fit my barrel made the largest difference in getting good groups. Next was dialing in the powder charge and it liked 90gr of BH209.

If I use T7 in that rifle, I swab every other shot. Swabbing every shot didn't improve it and it could go 3 shots, but loading that third gets tough. In this case, 100gr of T7 got the best groups.

In my underhammer, I use T7, and swab every other shot. That one likes 90gr T7 with a lubed wool wad under the bullet. No wad and the groups open about an inch. With the wad it will put 5 shots into 1.5" at 100 yards. Without the wad and 2-3" is as good as you get with a flyer here and there.

Both with a 420gr bullet I cast in my own design mold.

When I say swab, I am using a cotton patch made from a t-shirt type material that I wet with water and squeeze out any excess so it is damp, not wet and dripping. I swab once with that, and follow with one dry patch. Then load and shoot.

Jeremy

How often are you doing a full clean?

 

[Wapiti1]

How often are you doing a full clean?

With BH209, and lead conicals about every 50-60 shots. At some point, I just clean it because I feel like I should more than it needing it. I see more issues if I shoot sabots with plastic fouling than with powder residue so I clean about every 30 with sabots. As much as every 15 is it's really hot out and I'm shooting sabots. Sabots and heat make for both fouling and horrible groups as the plastic softens from the heat.

With T7, I fully clean after every shooting session. T7 has enough sulphur to rust things pretty quickly. So, my smokepole gets a hot soapy water scrub, thorough drying and an oil finish.

Jeremy

 

[Harvey_NW]

I've never shot loose but I shoot (3) 50gr Pyrodex pellets behind 250gr Hornady SST in my Traditions Vortek Northwest Magnum and it shoots 1.5" groups @ 100 yards prone off the bipod. In WA we can't use optics so that's traditional open sights and the front dot damn near covers a 12" shoot-n-see at 100. I try to do a full cleaning every 5 or 6 shots. Thompson Center No. 9 cleaner is the first cleaner I tried and it works amazing, liquifies the crusty powder and wipes off clean. I use a little TC bore butter as thread grease on the plug and nipple on reassembly.

 

[BRTreedogs]

So what i have found is you will have a bullet that is suddenly harder to load then the 1st how ever many. Just a kinda that one was harder or gritty etc.
I've found this one does not group with the others.
I don't count it and let's say it was number 5 or 10 whatever it is I always clean one less then that from there out.
Not an extensive clean. 2 wet 2 dry patches in the field, if I need to shoot more.

Then a complete field strip.

I also found it very hard to shoot with a large front bead.
I had to spend an extra $100 on a cheap scope and mounts to get the load worked up.
Then once I was confident in a load pull the scope and zero the irons.

I also hard to search out an absolutely giant target bulls eye. If the bead is covering the entire target it is hard to be consistent.

So I selected the giant bullseye target and try to keep my front bead centered by keeping and even amount of bullseye around the bead.

Hope this helps.

 

[NickyD]

So what i have found is you will have a bullet that is suddenly harder to load then the 1st how ever many. Just a kinda that one was harder or gritty etc.
I've found this one does not group with the others.
I don't count it and let's say it was number 5 or 10 whatever it is I always clean one less then that from there out.
Not an extensive clean. 2 wet 2 dry patches in the field, if I need to shoot more.

Then a complete field strip.

I also found it very hard to shoot with a large front bead.
I had to spend an extra $100 on a cheap scope and mounts to get the load worked up.
Then once I was confident in a load pull the scope and zero the irons.

I also hard to search out an absolutely giant target bulls eye. If the bead is covering the entire target it is hard to be consistent.

So I selected the giant bullseye target and try to keep my front bead centered by keeping and even amount of bullseye around the bead.

Hope this helps.

That’s a great idea. This years hunt I can use a scope but next year I’ll be doing a high country mule deer hunt with iron sights only and would love to increase my effective range beyond 100.

Based on everyone’s comments I don’t know if it’s a lack of proper cleaning. I use wet and dry patches every 2-3 shots. I was using BH209 and powerbelt bullets. I’ll have to give the scope a try to see if it was just my poor shooting

 

[Wapiti1]

That’s a great idea. This years hunt I can use a scope but next year I’ll be doing a high country mule deer hunt with iron sights only and would love to increase my effective range beyond 100.

Based on everyone’s comments I don’t know if it’s a lack of proper cleaning. I use wet and dry patches every 2-3 shots. I was using BH209 and powerbelt bullets. I’ll have to give the scope a try to see if it was just my poor shooting

Which Powerbelt and what charge weight are you using? Are you letting it really cool between shots?

Powerbelts behave like sabots and that plastic skirt needs a cool barrel, IME. Heat softens the plastic and it shreds. The first shot will look good, and the second, the third may, or may not. After that, you are just wasting your time. Powerbelts do not bump up like a full bore conical.

It's not uncommon to have to wait 15-20 minutes between shots to get a good group on a warm/hot day. When I shoot sabots in the summer, I use a cooling rod down the barrel between shots and keep the bullet/sabots in a cooler with ice. If I don't, it takes forever to shoot. When I do, I can get MOA easily in my Savage out to 300 yards (farthest my range goes).

I would suggest you try a lead conical or Thor. They are not temp sensitive.

Jeremy

 

[Rich M]

I'll run wet patches down the bore in between 3-5 shot groups if not in a hurry - use 1/2 blue windshield washer fluid and 1/2 rubbing alcohol and it'll shine like the sun. I'll run the patch down wet but not dripping, flip it an do another run, then dry patches flipping them to maximize their use. 2 or 3 dry patches is about right.

End of day, last patch will be a damp/lightly moist oil patch - both side, then done.

Worst part of cleaning ML is the breach threads in the gun. Round brush works but the threads hold gunk...

Remember that a ML has some recoil so that may be affecting your groups as you shoot more.

Also - practice further than 100 yards. Do 150 and 200. You should surprise yourself.

Good luck on your hunt.

 

[NickyD]

Which Powerbelt and what charge weight are you using? Are you letting it really cool between shots?

Powerbelts behave like sabots and that plastic skirt needs a cool barrel, IME. Heat softens the plastic and it shreds. The first shot will look good, and the second, the third may, or may not. After that, you are just wasting your time. Powerbelts do not bump up like a full bore conical.

It's not uncommon to have to wait 15-20 minutes between shots to get a good group on a warm/hot day. When I shoot sabots in the summer, I use a cooling rod down the barrel between shots and keep the bullet/sabots in a cooler with ice. If I don't, it takes forever to shoot. When I do, I can get MOA easily in my Savage out to 300 yards (farthest my range goes).

I would suggest you try a lead conical or Thor. They are not temp sensitive.

Jeremy

Powerbelt Platinum 338 with 90 GR of BH209. I don’t wait 15-20 minutes per shot, probably closer to 10 minutes. But I if I shoot 5 rounds on a given day that would be a lot. I’d make sure the barrel was at most slightly warm

 

[Rich M]

I’ve been known to use a battery powered fan or inflater thingy to cool down the barrel when shooting during summertime down here.

 

[Wapiti1]

I’ve been known to use a battery powered fan or inflater thingy to cool down the barrel when shooting during summertime down here.

One guy I see at the range has an inflator with a 30" (my guess) 3/8" OD copper tube on it. He puts the tube down the barrel so the air hits the breech and exits the muzzle. Seems to work well for him.

Jeremy

 

[Rich M]

One guy I see at the range has an inflator with a 30" (my guess) 3/8" OD copper tube on it. He puts the tube down the barrel so the air hits the breech and exits the muzzle. Seems to work well for him.

Jeremy

He's got it figured out. Great concept.


I will pull the breech plug and go back to front. Sometime on rifles, will go front to back when don't feel like pulling the bolt.

W fan is slower cause it doesn't force a lot of air thru the barrel, more cools from the outside in.

Can run the truck and bring the guns inside for the AC. I don't like the idea of blowing 60 degree air on a hot rifle barrel tho. Just being in the cool truck didn't also didn't cool as quickly as using the inflator.

 

[TraderMike]

I believe an important consideration is whether or not you are comfortable hunting with a fouled barrel, possibly for many days and thus risking corrosion occurring and permanently damaging your bore. Some may argue that this is a "small" risk. My rifles are no longer made and I am not going to take this risk. Therefore, I swab between EVERY shot with a damp patch of 50% Hoppes 9 and 50% isopropyl alcohol followed by a dry patch. This means all of my shots are assessed via a clean bore and the rifle is sighted in for a clean bore, not a fouled bore. In my experience a follow-up shot without swabbing, like you might encounter while hunting, will be a couple inches outside the "clean bore" group, but not enough to matter in my opinion.

The iso alcohol should be as near to 100% purity as you can find. Avoid the 70% stuff most drugstores seem to carry. I have to go through Amazon to get the 99% pure stuff.

I know many consider the added time to swab between every shot an unnecessary PIA and don't agree with my perceived risk regarding corrosion and pitting, but you only get to guess wrong once and then your bore is damaged.