Load development

[JFK]

I’m brand new to reloading. I recently built a bench in a spare bedroom and have everything mounted and have all necessary supplies. I have also been reading up a lot to make sure I’m knowledgeable and safe before I start and the time has come to start developing a load for my 270.

My question pertains to load development. I’ll be loading 110gr TTSX over H4350, and I also have Hybrid 100 on hand as an option. My question is how many rounds of each charge is necessary, and at what grain increments should I load for the initial development? My plan was to start at a minimum Barnes book load and load one round of each in .5 grain increments. This would be done so I could work my up checking for pressure and accuracy as I go up. I’d make notes of where I saw pressure, if any, leading up to max, and where I saw accuracy. The only problem I can see with this is I wouldn’t be able to shoot more than 1 round per charge weight so wouldn’t know if it grouped.

Is it better to load up 3 or more rounds per charge weight so you can check for pressure while also seeing if a given load groups? I know 3 shots isn’t really a group but just trying to figure this out so I don’t have to pull a bunch of bullets.

to recap my question....for initial load development, what grain increments is everyone using to work towards max, and how many rounds of each charge weight is the most efficient way to find the ideal load.

I hope all that made sense. Thanks for the advice.

 

[MuleyFever]

I should get my die tomorrow to load up my first rounds. I have been reading a lot and about 1% increments seem to be popular. I'll be in the 50's for my charge so using .5 grain increments. I'm also going with 3 rounds per charge. I am starting at 55 grains and looking for a max around 59, so 5 rounds per charge is just to many for my first round before I even start changing seating depth. I know shooting 5 rounds is popular but I think that I can see what charge will show the most potential from a 3 shot group and then work with them from there.

 

[Rob5589]

Likely it varies between people. I load 5 of each charge and stop when I find a charge the gun prefers.

 

[doverpack12]

I use a few methods. I’ll follow your 3 shots every half a grain if I don’t care about top end velocity and I’m shooting moderate ranges. If it’s more of a long range rifle and load, I will likely shoot a ladder test at 300 yards with one shot per charge and chronograph the shots so I can correlate impact point with velocity between charge weights. For a long time all I did was 3 shot groups at increasing charge weights and I found some really good shooting loads.

 

[doc88]

10 Round Load Development Ladder Test

www.65guys.com

I do this a majority of the time. You'll need a chronograph and some knowledge of where to start. Depending on the cartridge's powder capacity as to the increments to increase powder. I use .06% of maximum charge weight. ie. 50gr x .006 = 0.3gr increase increments. 80 x .006 = 0.5gr and so on. Find a series of charges where the velocity levels out. Usually will be .5-2gr under maximum charge ( maximum charge being where pressure starts to show in your particular gun). Do lots of research and know the signs of pressure... heavy bolt lift, ejector mark, etc.

Once you find a velocity node, then play with seating depth to fine tune.

 

[JFK]

Just thought I’d follow up on this thread with my results.

The rifle: Savage 110 in 270win

-New Hornady brass, sized and prepped
-H4350
-Remington 91/2 primers
-Barnes 110gr TTSX bullets.
COL is 3.220

I loaded 1 round each from min charge up to 55gr. From 55gr upwards I loaded 3 rounds each, ending at 58.7gr (book max is 58.9gr)

This was my first attempt at hand loading and I’m very happy with the results. No pressure signs all the way up to my top charge. Even better is that from start to finish, everything shot acceptable groups at 100yds. At 55-57gr it was shooting at about 1”. At 57gr things started to tighten up considerably. At 57.5 and 57.75gr I was putting bullets through the same hole.....never done that before with factory ammo. Working up from there, accuracy was still very acceptable for hunting at right around 1moa or less.

I’m going to probably stick with the 57.75 charge weight. Not because it showed the very best accuracy, but because I like that small margin of safety in not being right up against max. I was shooting in 50 degree weather and I hunt pigs here in California a fair amount in the hotter summer months.

I don’t have a max COL gauge and landed at 3.220 based on some research, factory ammo that shot well in my rifle and a wild ass guess. I knew it would be safe but figured I’d have to mess with seating depth to find accuracy. That’s A LOT of jump. Nearly double what Barnes suggests, but I can’t argue with the results. Next I’m going to load up some 10 round groups to confirm what I saw shooting 3 rounds each, zero my scope and be done with it. I do have some 130gr TTSX and hybrid 100v I might try out next just so I have a heavier bullet if the need arises.

 

[Plumb Bob]

Well done JFK! Now the fun part of chasing the perfect load for all if your rifles begins.

 

[tdhanses]

Add a chrono to your list of future required purchases, you really need to see what the ES is of your loads to find a consistent load without guessing. I recommend the Magnetospeed sporter as an economical way to do this.

Anymore I don’t even pay attention to groups when doing load development. I load 5rds in .5gr increments and watch for the ES in velocity to shrink, I’m looking for the best (lowest) ES under 25ft/s, I really like it in the single digits if I can. When I find the range with the lowest ES that is where I end up. I’ll then play with seating depth changes to tighten it up from there.

If I have a book load value with the powder and bullet I’m using I’ll usually drop 2gr below max and go from there but with a factory rifle I’d start at the bottom and work my way up.

 

[JFK]

I’d like to get a chrono at some point.

I’ll ask the question at the risk of showing my lack of knowledge on the subject. If I’m getting consistent point of impact at different yardages, does it really make a difference in a hunting situation? I don’t dial my scope for different yardages and don’t take shots much past 300 yards. So if I’m getting consistent POI within those yardages and its killing stuff that I shoot at, what real world problem do I have if it has some variance in speed? Seems things are probably “good enough” where they are at now. I don’t really want to go down the rabbit hole with reloading and the results I have are already far better than any factory ammo I’ve shot. All that said I wouldn’t mind shooting this over a chrono just to see how fast it is and satisfy my my curiosity.

 

[tdhanses]

Just depends, do you have 100rds of this load verified as consistent or 3-10? This is where the chrono helps determine you truly are on a great load which it sounds like you are. But nothing wrong with loading up and shooting, if it’s consistent with accuracy that makes you happy then yeah no need to go further down the rabbit hole.

 

[FLS]

I’d like to get a chrono at some point.

I’ll ask the question at the risk of showing my lack of knowledge on the subject. If I’m getting consistent point of impact at different yardages, does it really make a difference in a hunting situation? I don’t dial my scope for different yardages and don’t take shots much past 300 yards. So if I’m getting consistent POI within those yardages and its killing stuff that I shoot at, what real world problem do I have if it has some variance in speed? Seems things are probably “good enough” where they are at now. I don’t really want to go down the rabbit hole with reloading and the results I have are already far better than any factory ammo I’ve shot. All that said I wouldn’t mind shooting this over a chrono just to see how fast it is and satisfy my my curiosity.

None. It would take a big velocity swing to show at your max range of 300 yds. If you’re getting good groups there don’t worry about it. FWIW you can work backwards with a ballistic calculator to figure out your muzzle velocity.

 

[Muley Buck]

Add a chrono to your list of future required purchases, you really need to see what the ES is of your loads to find a consistent load without guessing. I recommend the Magnetospeed sporter as an economical way to do this.

Anymore I don’t even pay attention to groups when doing load development. I load 5rds in .5gr increments and watch for the ES in velocity to shrink, I’m looking for the best (lowest) ES under 25ft/s, I really like it in the single digits if I can. When I find the range with the lowest ES that is where I end up. I’ll then play with seating depth changes to tighten it up from there.

If I have a book load value with the powder and bullet I’m using I’ll usually drop 2gr below max and go from there but with a factory rifle I’d start at the bottom and work my way up.

I'm curious, from your lowest ES or flat spot on velocity, what are the groups looking like? Also, how much have you got them to tighten up through seating depth after that?

 

[tdhanses]

I'm curious, from your lowest ES or flat spot on velocity, what are the groups looking like? Also, how much have you got them to tighten up through seating depth after that?

Here is the thread on my 270wsm and my load development I did on it with the 170gr Berger’s, I’ve gotten it pretty low. On my current 6.5cm I haven’t got to this point yet as I’m still testing different loads.

270wsm load development

I finally got around the last few weeks to testing the 170gr Berger EOL bullets in my 270wsm. I followed Berger’s recommendation for load development for a hunter (I slightly modified it and tested way more) but here is the short version loading .01, .04, .08 and .12 off the lands. My sweet...

www.rokslide.com

 

[tdhanses]

Also I should note I’ve had significant ES and SD changes 35ft/s swings with just the seating depth in my loads once I find the powder node.

 

[Muley Buck]

Also I should note I’ve had significant ES and SD changes 35ft/s swings with just the seating depth in my loads once I find the powder node.

That makes sense. I'm sure that would be due to case capacity / pressure changes.

 

[Muley Buck]

Here is the thread on my 270wsm and my load development I did on it with the 170gr Berger’s, I’ve gotten it pretty low. On my current 6.5cm I haven’t got to this point yet as I’m still testing different loads.

270wsm load development

I finally got around the last few weeks to testing the 170gr Berger EOL bullets in my 270wsm. I followed Berger’s recommendation for load development for a hunter (I slightly modified it and tested way more) but here is the short version loading .01, .04, .08 and .12 off the lands. My sweet...

www.rokslide.com

Damn fine groups you had going on that. But what did the groups look like before any seating depth changes took place? What made you or how did you determine where to start seating depth when going into the OCW testing?

 

[tdhanses]

Damn fine groups you had going on that. But what did the groups look like before any seating depth changes took place? What made you or how did you determine where to start seating depth when going into the OCW testing?

I note where I started and moved from in that thread. I followed the Berger recommendations. Groups were probably around .75 at worst from what I remember, been awhile since I developed that load.

With my 6.5cm I’m testing currently, while I measured my ogive length I started with what will fit in my mag box which limits me there as it is saami spec of 2.825. But I’ve found Berger’s like a lot of jump. Off the top of my head I’m .119 off the lands on the 6.5 and seating depth will probably not be messed with as much unless I can’t find an accurate load based on powder with out adjusting seating depth.

In the end there is no set do this, have to test what works in your rifle and make adjustments to see if it can be improved.

 

[Muley Buck]

I note where I started and moved from in that thread. I followed the Berger recommendations. Groups were probably around .75 at worst from what I remember, been awhile since I developed that load.

With my 6.5cm I’m testing currently, while I measured my ogive length I started with what will fit in my mag box which limits me there as it is saami spec of 2.825. But I’ve found Berger’s like a lot of jump. Off the top of my head I’m .119 off the lands on the 6.5 and seating depth will probably not be messed with as much unless I can’t find an accurate load based on powder with out adjusting seating depth.

In the end there is no set do this, have to test what works in your rifle and make adjustments to see if it can be improved.

Gotcha, I was just curious on the method.

 

[16Bore]

(WARNING!! THIS IS MY WAY AND MY WAY ONLY, I.E. IF BLOW YOUR SHIT ITS YOU’RE DECISION)

Here’s how I do Barnes. OAL is always to the front of the first driving band so that’s easy. Say “book” load range is 50-55gr. I’ll load this:

52, 53, 4@ 54, and a 55

Set up chrono and a target at 100 yards.

Shoot 52. Note speed, where on target, check pressure signs.

Shoot 53. Same, but move scope closer to zero.

Shoot (1) 54. Same, should be about at zero.

Shoot 55. Same. Don’t worry about scope.


Look REALLY CLOSE at primers & case heads. You might see a progression of pressure.

If things look good and nothing says STOP, shoot a group with the other 3 54’s.


Now you’ve got 4 velocity readings near max and an idea of the accuracy.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve stopped right there...

 

[tdot]

Chronographs are awesome. Get one if you can. They are also a safety tool, not just a performance guage.

The idea of the 10 round load development started by looking at results on paper. Not only results from a chronograph. 6.5Guys/Scott Satterlee's method appears to be the most recent version of a 10 round load development, but I personally don't like it. I prefer to see results on paper and on the chronograph.

All of my best loads have low ES. But my lowest ES, does not always yield my most reliable loads. (I hope that makes sense).

Looking for accuracy nodes on paper will result in a more reliable load, in my experience. If I can find an accuracy node that spans 1 to 2 grains of powder and possible 100fps, it may not result in the lowest ES. But if I can find a final load somewhere within that wide accuracy node, then I have a really stable load that should shoot consistently over temp swings, different positions, etc.

Personally I often find the velocity nodes to span a smaller range of pressure. So I may be able to find a very low ES, but if my POI changes by 1MOA only 1/2 grain of powder up or down, then a temp swing could result in that difference in pressure that could cause that POI shift.

So I take known data, load up 1 round in 0.5 grain increments and shoot at a common aim point until I hit pressure. Then stop. Record each impact as it is happening. I watch thru a spotter and mark the impacts down on paper at the bench.

There will likely be one or two groups of impacts that have minimal vertical over several powder charges. I focus the next ladder on the widest accuracy node, I reload in 0.2 to 0.4 grain increments, starting a little below and ending a slightly after the min/max of the accuracy node. Shoot this ladder test in the same way, but at a greater distance. This will help refine the accuracy node. From that data I load up usually 2 or 3 sets of 3 rounds, and shoot for groups. Then I also refine seating depth at this point.

All in, its usually 20-40 rounds. I know max pressure for that bullet/powder combo. I have a couple accuracy nodes to work with. I usually know the approx seating depth that that bullet likes and I usually end up with a really stable/accurate round.

Once I know the final seating depth, then I may retest the final powder charges to fine tune the load.