Load recomendation for my new Muzzleloader

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WKR
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I am rookie looking for some advice for my first muzzleloader. I bought this 50 caliber with a 1:24 twist to shoot conicals : https://www.davide-pedersoli.com/en/product/traditional-hawken-hunter-rifle-percussion-model

I ordered the sizing pack from No Excuses. Next I was thinking of shooting either the 420 or 460 grain bullet.

My question:
1) What powder do I use with the No. 11 caps? ( I an buy goex 2f locally)

2) Given your choice of powder what volume ( or weight) min and max?

3) Finally, do I need to run a wad or something between the bullet and powder?

Thans in advance!!
 
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WKR
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I found some 777 ff so I think that is my starting point. Any other feedback?
 

msalm

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With 777, I run a damp then dry patch between each shot, otherwise it will foul out pretty fast, otherwise up to 120gr by volume is doable but accuracy may be best at a lower charge. I’d start at 90 and go to 120 and see where your recoil limit is and accuracy.
 
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Buy the goex, start with 60 gr, three shot groups at 50 yards, after each set swab the barrel with a damp patch followed bye a dry patch, increase the charge bye 10 grains and repeat the process, as you shoot you will see the groups tighten up continue the 10 gr. increments until the groups widen, then go backwards with the process until the groups tighten up again, Use a good bullet lube, stay away from petro based lubes, I make my own lube of crisco, bees wax and olive oil if you want a bit a-lox also,if you want you can run a thin card board disc or a thin fiber wad under the bullet but really not necessary (different schools of thought on this) I am going too make a guess you will wind up at about 90grs. 2 f goex for the sweet spot at 50 yards, other suggestion is once you find the load at 50 yards re-sight the rifle 1 in. high at the 50 yd. mark and you should be good at 100 yards. Make notes as you progress and stick too one type of bullet and loading procedure. There is a reason they are called black powder rifles and not triple 7 or pyrodex rifles. Stick too the subs for in-lines. Also during this process shoot off a bench with good support for the rifle. And be particular with the process of loading do it the same for every shot. Black powder is measured bye volume so be sure too have a good adjustable powder measure.
 
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WKR
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Thanks fkr thw feedback. Looks like one vote for traditional goex and one for T7. I think i will buy both.

As for 120 grain charge my shoulder hurts thinking about that. I plan to tap out before 100.
 

GMB54-120

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As for 120 grain charge my shoulder hurts thinking about that. I plan to tap out before 100
Loads like that are simply not needed with a heavy conical and for the most part a REALLY bad idea anyway.
 
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WKR
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Loads like that are simply not needed with a heavy conical and for the most part a REALLY bad idea anyway.
All my reading says that too much powder deforms the bullett and accuracy falls apart. Doesn't sound like the heavy lead conicals need more than 100grains at most.

Getting excited to try this project out. Supposed to arrive on the 21st.
 

GMB54-120

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My "hot" load for my 45s is 80grV of BH209 and a 460gr or 488gr. That gives me over 1400fps. So around 90-100gr of Swiss or about 90gr of T7 will give you close to that in a 50cal.

Using more is just going to increase the chance of leading and likely worse accuracy. Soft lead works fine at milder impact speeds.

Your 1-24 will stabilize a 420gr or 460gr with ease. I would even use less powder with that 420gr in a 1-24. Like around 70gr and work up 5gr at a time. My best guess is you will be in the zone with aound 80gr of Swiss or Ole Eynsford with either bullet.
 
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Rich M

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I’ve got a 58 cal and would shoot 60 grains pyrodex w 209 primers. Took it up to 90 gr with decent results. Shooting 440 gr real bullets.
 
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First of all you need to know that 777 is about 15% hotter/stronger than real black. So 87 gr (by volume) of 777 is aprox equivalent to 100 gr (by volume) real black.

Secondly, definitely do not go over 100 grains with those big bullets. There is no need. Your shoulder will suffer and most likely so will accuracy. It would also not be safe to use 120 gr in a side-lock (especially 777). I once used 110 of pyrodex in my renegade and after firing, the hammer was in the cocked position. That is right. The back blow from the powder recocked the hammer. Not really something you want to happen. And Pyrodex is aprox equivalent to real black.

I do like 777. In a sidelock, the buildup is not that bad and cleanup is easy (water soluable). If I was using 777 and a 420/460 gr bullet, I would start at 70 and not go above 90 grains.

Also, with 777, the most widely used is ffg and that is a good starting point. But if it happens to be fffg, that is even more powerful. Maybe another 5-8%.
 
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WKR
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First of all you need to know that 777 is about 15% hotter/stronger than real black. So 87 gr (by volume) of 777 is aprox equivalent to 100 gr (by volume) real black.

Secondly, definitely do not go over 100 grains with those big bullets. There is no need. Your shoulder will suffer and most likely so will accuracy. It would also not be safe to use 120 gr in a side-lock (especially 777). I once used 110 of pyrodex in my renegade and after firing, the hammer was in the cocked position. That is right. The back blow from the powder recocked the hammer. Not really something you want to happen. And Pyrodex is aprox equivalent to real black.

I do like 777. In a sidelock, the buildup is not that bad and cleanup is easy (water soluable). If I was using 777 and a 420/460 gr bullet, I would start at 70 and not go above 90 grains.

Also, with 777, the most widely used is ffg and that is a good starting point. But if it happens to be fffg, that is even more powerful. Maybe another 5-8%.
Thanks for the great input. I will start at 70 grains and go up in 5s. Muzzleloader gets here tomorrow. Hit the range on Friday.
 

GMB54-120

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Triple7, Swiss and Ole Eynsford are all fairly close in speed. The only guy i know shooting T7 in a sidelock is in 50cal 1-28s. His max load is 90gr of FFG or FFFG. I cant remember which. The faster 1-24 needs less velocity to stabilize the same weight conical.

T7 is harder to ignite than real black. So make sure to get good hot caps and pay attention to how wet your patches are. They should be damp but not dripping wet. Might even be a good idea to fire just a cap after swabbing to blow out any wet crud in the flash channel.

Mix 50/50 windex and 91% rubbing alcohol for your swabbing mix. Make up patches and store them in a air tight container. It will evaporate faster and works well on T7 fouling.

Just a FYI, Pedersoli makes a 209 primer adapter for their rifles. Not easy to use but might have some uses in certain situations.
 
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GMB54-120

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Oh and make sure to get some felt wads to protect the base of the conical. T7 burns hotter too. You can get unlubed and just use some peanut oil or buy lubed. Either 50cal or over sized 54cal. The over sized will make a better seal.
 
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WKR
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Oh and make sure to get some felt wads to protect the base of the conical. T7 burns hotter too. You can get unlubed and just use some peanut oil or buy lubed. Either 50cal or over sized 54cal. The over sized will make a better seal.
I have the 54 cal felt wads and winchester magnum No 11 caps.

I really appreciate the advice on the windex/alcohol solution. I will make up a batch. I also like the idea of firing a cap after each cleaning to make certain everything is dry.

One question....what should i do after I am all done shooting for the day. Bring it home and clean with hot water? Then apply some oil? That is my plan...let me know if I am off.
 
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That is what I have always done.

I Remove the barrel and nipple and put breechplug end in bucket of hot soapy water and run ramrod/ patches up and down to clean. Then I pour boiling water down barrel (barrel will be HOT!). When cools, couple of dry patches to be sure to get all moisture followed by a light oil (I use Montana extreme) for storage. When I get it out to shoot, I run a couple dry patches and then then pop 2 caps to be sure breechplug is free of oil. I have a sidelock I built in the 80s and it’s barrel is still great with that way of cleaning. There are other ways though…
 
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