Long range hunting... the perspective nobody talks about

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It seems like there are 2 sides of the table (3 including mine in the do what you like to do, and I have zero issues with it and appreciate the skill set)

there is the “long range hunting is awesome” side and the “long range hunting isn’t hunting, it’s just shooting” side. Those are the 2 normal sides you read on the internet.

I was just talking with a buddy earlier and it was brought up, he likes to shoot stuff far away. The subject was brought up out of the blue, I won’t bore anyone with that.
I was mentioning another friend of mine that also likes shooting critters far away, and it got me thinking.... most of the guys I know who are into “long range hunters” now have been straight up killers with a bow for a long time.

people who are against “long range” have their preconceived notions about what that entails (roll up to a landing in your diesel that’s back window is covered in stickers, whip out the magic optics, find a big trophy class critter, which shouldn’t take but a couple minutes with the magical optics, dial in your dope and blast away.... if it drops, run some haywire over there and take some pics for the “gram” and winch ‘er up) not even fair.

as a disclaimer, I don’t shoot Stuff far away and probably never will, I just don’t want to invest the time, money and effort into doing it effectively... it’s easier to just get closer to me;)

what I see with the people I know who are into long range is they do it as an evolution, to mix things up and challenge themselves in a different way, the ones I know don’t do it as a shortcut to success, they have killed big stuff with archery gear their whole lives.

I don’t think what I see is a coincidence, so that kind of discredits the haters, and why they hate on it.

we as hunters pick the most petty shit to argue about, things that don’t matter even a little. We would be a lot better off if we could (as a whole) open our eyes a little bit and just accept things even if it’s not our thing.

I feel like if someone wants to hate on some form of hunting, they should do a little of it to at least have a legit reason to not like it rather than make it whatever we think it is in our heads (hound hunting comes to mind)

if folks did it, they would see that each type of hunting has it’s own unique difficulties, if forms of hunting were as easy as the haters want to think, it wouldn’t be legal

it seems crazy how cannibalistic we are some times
 

mxgsfmdpx

WKR
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I don't care how or what anyone else hunts. People need to lay off the social media and enjoy their own lives. It's nice to converse with guys on forums like this about hunting, but the big social media platforms are such garbage.
 

JP100

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and then there is the guides perspective.....

we are the guys who see shit get gut shot and missed all season long and we are the ones who have to deal with it.

I have shot stuff with the bow and out over 1000 yards, and have had clients that do the same and everything in between,


The problem for us as guides is its impossible to figure if guys can shoot and their gear is set up well, or they are full of shit. Often people step into long range without doing their homework.

To be a reliable long range shooter takes ALOT of homework, its not easy, it costs money and time. There are some amazing good guys out there who shoot long range, but there are alot of people who over step their skills. it takes time to get good.


Thats my mane gripe with it, when I see a client hit and kill and animal with the first shot I am ecstatic, and you would be amazed how many shots are missed at under 300 yards.

My other main gripe is people insisting you have to shoot long range to 'mountain hunt', which is not at all true. There are plenty of hunters here and all around the world who kill all sorts of alpine game without ever firing a shot over 300 yards. I had a Russian client last year with 20+ Capra species/sub species and 20+ sheep under his belt and had never shot over 300 yards,

So my take is.

If you want to shoot long range, do it properly, and take the time. go slow and push your limits over time. Dont use a guided hunt as you 'testing a new rifle' trip haha.
Go on some cull/management hunts if you can, or shoot varmints. you need lots of real world shooting to get better and most ranges will only get you so far.

Dont make mountain hunting about long range, they are two different things and need not be combined. I see it as off putting to guys starting our mountain hunting, they all think they need a 800 yard set up which just is not true.
 

Pacific_Fork

Well Known Rokslider
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The REAL issue is people buy 10K rifles built for shooting a mile but they cant hit the broad side of an african elephant at 300 yards with it because they flat out cant shoot their gun. Long range shooting is a skill set acquired over many many days at the range and building your own rifle and loading your own ammunition. If you watch all the long range hunting shots online Id bet all my money that past 500 yards 60% of these shooters miss the first shot or wound the game, thats being conservative. Then they celebrate hitting the animal on the 3rd or 4th shot like they actually accomplished something. Ive seen first hand guys in the field taking numerous shots they have no business in taking. Listen to the guides perspective above. If you are confident with your shooting abilities it doesnt matter if its a 20 yard bow shot or a 500 yard rifle shot, confidence equates to clean kills. Anything else (liking feeling surprised you hit your target) is unethical and deserves criticism in my eyes.
 

22lr

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Im not good enough of a shot to trust myself past 400 yards, but it's alot easier to criticize other for lack of sport than it is to get myself to be a better shot.

I joke... but seriously, if your good enough to take the long shots, take em. But I have no respect and open distain for those that push their own boundaries and take the "risk" for the first time in the field. If you know you can make the shot, take it. If you don't know that you can make the shot, don't take it. You take risk at the range against a steel target, you don't take risk in the field. That's just how I view it plain and simple.

We all miss enough shots that we "knew" we could make, we don't need to be stretching ourselves in the field against an animal for the first time. But personally, id love to be the guy that can take a 600 yard shot with confidence I just know that I am currently not that guy...
 

Shooter45

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Of the elk I've been able to hunt, ever shot has been 100-150yds. Took one at 500 but that was concerns it was was wounded and made the shot. I shoot and teach long range shooting and guided elk hunts for years. Saw a lot of people attempting shots they had no business at, let alone using match bullets that are not designed for ethical kills.
 

22lr

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Of the elk I've been able to hunt, ever shot has been 100-150yds. Took one at 500 but that was concerns it was was wounded and made the shot. I shoot and teach long range shooting and guided elk hunts for years. Saw a lot of people attempting shots they had no business at, let alone using match bullets that are not designed for ethical kills.

Good point on bullet selection. Super easy to start making compromises to get a flatter ballistic table. Like everything it's a game of compromise. I play the same game, I get it, just don't "compromise" yourself out of an ethical kill. Just goes back to knowing your gear. If you know your gear you will know if you can make the shot.
 
OP
roosiebull
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and then there is the guides perspective.....

we are the guys who see shit get gut shot and missed all season long and we are the ones who have to deal with it.

I have shot stuff with the bow and out over 1000 yards, and have had clients that do the same and everything in between,


The problem for us as guides is its impossible to figure if guys can shoot and their gear is set up well, or they are full of shit. Often people step into long range without doing their homework.

To be a reliable long range shooter takes ALOT of homework, its not easy, it costs money and time. There are some amazing good guys out there who shoot long range, but there are alot of people who over step their skills. it takes time to get good.


Thats my mane gripe with it, when I see a client hit and kill and animal with the first shot I am ecstatic, and you would be amazed how many shots are missed at under 300 yards.

My other main gripe is people insisting you have to shoot long range to 'mountain hunt', which is not at all true. There are plenty of hunters here and all around the world who kill all sorts of alpine game without ever firing a shot over 300 yards. I had a Russian client last year with 20+ Capra species/sub species and 20+ sheep under his belt and had never shot over 300 yards,

So my take is.

If you want to shoot long range, do it properly, and take the time. go slow and push your limits over time. Dont use a guided hunt as you 'testing a new rifle' trip haha.
Go on some cull/management hunts if you can, or shoot varmints. you need lots of real world shooting to get better and most ranges will only get you so far.

Dont make mountain hunting about long range, they are two different things and need not be combined. I see it as off putting to guys starting our mountain hunting, they all think they need a 800 yard set up which just is not true.
Totally agree, but those people are in every hunting segment and make poor shots with a bow inside 40yds, or a rifle at 200. There are wannabes all over, but that isn't unique to long range, that's just people shooting whatever weapons at whatever distance outside of their realistic capability.

Like I mentioned, long range hunting isn't on my radar, I know buying a 10k dollar rig doesn't buy me capability to shoot a buck at 1000 yds.... I know the work and dedication it takes to earn that ability, and it's not interesting enough to me to put forth the effort.... Not now at least.

I just thought it was interesting that the long range guys I know have been killers a long time at close range.... I'm talking about the guys actually doing it with the ability, and killing stuff every year at extended ranges... If they wanted to, they have proved they will do the same with a bow.... Not in theory, but did every year.

This doesn't fit the stereotype the haters paint, they do it to challenge themselves rather than shooting long range as a shortcut.

I will say, this site is better than most in that regard, a more subjective group than other forums, which I appreciate.

The mentality of the masses is why I have no social media besides a couple hunting forums.
 
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Hmmmm...this one troubles me. My general view is to support legal methods of take in nearly all instances. Further, I support fellow hunters that seek to add a higher level of challenge to their endeavor within reason. I wouldn’t judge an upland hunter that goes to the field with a double barrel 28 gauge instead of an SBE set up for 3-gun and loaded with A dozen 3.5 inch death nuggets. I don’t judge a stick bow or even a self bow hunter that refuses a compound bow or a crossbow, even though they are more effective in most hands.

The fact is that skill levels vary and people want to challenge themselves. I would not tell john dudley or cam Hanes or Aaron “sexual tyrannosaurus” Snyder not to take an 80-yard compound bow shot at an animal, but I wouldn’t take it. Years ago, I worked with snipers that could put bullets in the apricot from 500 yards out all day long and well enough at night to give you bad dreams. 700-800 yards was easy for them and 1000 was reasonable with a good position and decent conditions. I used to shoot with an ex SOCOM sniper that could out score me shooting offhand under 300 yards vs me shooting on a bipod.

There are shades of grey and I can’t say I am a big fan of taking long shots just for the sake of taking long shots. However, I don’t want to condemn someone who is taking a longer shot as a matter of principle. I think a lot depends on the shooter and their personal level of capability.
 

hartigjosh

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My 2c if you care to read from someone that has gone down this long range road recently... I want to be as efficient and effective as possible. For many years I was and still am focused on bowhunting. I would regularly shoot out to 100 yards bc it was fun and it built confidence in my 60 yard effective range.
When I drew a good rifle deer tag I thought about my capabilities with a rifle.

Forever I have been an off the shelf rifle, factory ammo, 3x9x40 scope, shooting slightly over 1 moa 2 inches high at 100 yards with an effective range around 300 yards because in my mind if I can get close with a bow I should be able to at least 300 with a gun. "Dialing" was not in my skill set.

Then I started watching long range videos on youtube and looking through forums. I got hooked, got my stepdad who has the grandslam and countless trophies under his belt with a r700 and 3x9x40 leupold for the duration hooked... it was a game changing experience to learn to shoot long distance. I studied, took courses, and now treat 600 yards as my practice yardage with my rifle. I have never felt this kind of confidence behind a gun and I recommend it. My farthest kill is 651, could I shoot 1000? Yes but I dont want to. Shoot to 1000 so 600 feels confident. Just like bowhunting. Effective at 100 so I am confident at 60 yds.

Good tale of the tape, my stepdad's first kill after learning long range... 80 yards. He spent all this time expecting to take a 600 yard cross basin shot and he ended up belly crawling in to 80 yards.
 
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I’m just getting to the rifle stuff but I’m fully aware what it takes to put an arrow into a plate at 100, thousands of arrows a year to get proficient at that distance. I would imagine trying to hit the same size target at 1000 proficiently under different conditions would take nearly as much practice.
 
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It's an interesting issue of knowing yourself and not giving in to peer pressure. Several years ago, I shot a ton of long range matches. Most of these matches had a stage called "Know Your Limits." It was a plate rack of different size steel, each worth a certain amount of points. You gained points as you went down in size......you lost all of your points if you missed. A lot of people came away from that stage with no points. As long as you know for certain that when you pull that trigger a 6" plate will die.....I have no problem with whatever range it is. Archery is no different. Guys get on here and talk about being comfortable at 60 -90 yard shots........again if you are 100% certain that you will hit a 6" plate.....let'er rip! 30 yards is my bow limit and 500 is the rifle limit. Sorry to preach.
 

bsnedeker

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As most are saying above, I have no issues with guys who have proven their ability to themselves and take ethical shots on animals based on their own abilities.

I will say I do have an issue with guys, and I've seen this personally, who won't take a close shot because they want a "challenge". Shooting an animal is not a game and it should not be treated like one. Take the best shot you possibly can within your own abilities. Don't move further away from the animal because 400 yards is too easy. I've talked to a few guys with this attitude and it drives me up the wall.
 

Rich M

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Can care less how people hunt.

You and your buddies want to do long distance shooting - have fun. Get it figured out on the range over the course of several years and use the skills acquired to sniper shoot animals. I'd shoot further distances if I had ranges around that offered em. Shooting is fun.

A lot of folks talk about archery like it is all that - stick bows are a real challenge - bows with sights are for us who cheat - 85% reduction in draw weight and sights make it super easy. I been shooting arrows (shooting a junker compound w 2 sights - 15 and 25 yards) at deer since the 1970s and can hit whatever I want but that's only part of it - deer move - every one I have killed and those I've lost have all moved at the shot. Lots of critters get wounded with archery, it is the unspoken part of it.

Much prefer to rifle hunt.
 

5MilesBack

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If it's a "transition" then wouldn't those same bow hunters just transition to LR bow instead of rifle? That seems like that would be the more likely transition, if a transition is what they feel they need to make.

But then you get into just what the motivation is. Is it the challenge? If it's the challenge, then hitting the bullseye at a mile would be just as challenging as hitting an animal at the same. If it's the killing, then distance doesn't matter.

It doesn't really matter to me how anyone else does it, as long as it's legal. It's their life......I'll let them live it. I've done LR rifle shooting as well as bow, but at this point in life I just want to be in the woods come Fall enjoying God's creation, listening to the bulls bugle, and playing a good game of chess with them.
 

Winnie

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The concern I have is somewhat different. It is the ethics with relation to the time the bullet (or arrow) is in flight. If it takes a full second for the projectile to make it there, sooner or later, that animal is going to take a half step or turn slightly. I have seen animals move when I didn't expect them too many, many times. At some point, the dimension of time enters into the equation and for me personally, 1 second is too much. So how far is too far? 2 seconds? 3? 4? Should someone shoot at an animal knowing that the bullet wouldn't arrive for 3 seconds? how many times would it take before the animal moved during that timeframe?

Many folks have discussed the ethics of shooting an arrow at a hyper-alert whitetail at 40+ yards. I think some of the same questions could be asked. Every harvest situation we encounter, we must weigh all of the factors involved and make our own decision. Then, we must live with the consequences.
 

rtaylor

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I'd say there are two camps here. The first is the accomplished hunter that has fine tuned his skills with a bow and is looking for a new experience. The second is the one who has hardly ever been in the woods but has watched long range youtube videos and wants to try it out. The first hunter is one that will treat long range hunting like he does his bow practice. Countless hours will go into practice and loading ammo. This guy won't be "backing up" to make a long range shot but will be overly prepared if that is the shot presented. The second guy shoots them in the guts at 450 and says "it happens to everyone eventually." Anyone that respects the game has my approval on any legal methods to take them.
 

Wrench

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I don't care if you hint with an f-15.....just don't vote to shut down the pastime for the rest of us.

Sincerely,

A guy who has killed shit with a longbow, in the 4 digits, a pistol, a front stuffer and with a classic wood gun.
 

MidwestElkHutner

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From my perspective, it is all about knowing your skill level, setting limits, and not exceeding those limits in the heat of the moment...or in other words discipline! That holds true with compound bow, traditional bow, rifle, or long range rifle. The one thing that is lost at times is part of that skill set is reading and understanding the animal. There is no way I would take a shot at a nervous attentive animal at 500 yards (I have spent a lot of time practicing and know without a doubt I can make a good shot at well beyond 500 yards), but I will say the same about shooting a nervous spooked animal at 40 yards with my bow (again I know that I can make that shot).

I have no problem how anyone chooses to hunt...but, I do have a problem with people who don't work on those skills. You cant spend $5000 on a rifle that is capable of shooting an animal at 1000 yards and simply zero the rifle, put it in the safe till season, and then pull it out opening day and take a crack at an animal at 600 yards. That in my eyes is irresponsible and doesn't show any respect for the animal. The exact same thing can be said for bows.
 
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