Loss of endurance on Keto

[grfox92]

I considered joining a "Keto Forum" but I rather not. I know there is a bunch of guys on here follow the diet so I figure I would start here.

I have been on and off keto a bunch of times in the last 2 years. There is no diet better for me, that I am able to lose weight and keep it off, curb cravings, and keep from over eating.

The main reason I have come off of the diet is my loss of physical energy and endurance. I can barely run 2 miles without having to stop and walk while on Keto, and after about 30 days I feel physically week. The longest I've done the diet is 45 days, and I felt like my arms and legs were heavy and exercise was just not productive at all.

I come off the diet and incorporate small amounts amounts of carbs and all the sudden I can run 4 miles no problem and feel like I have my strength back.

I would really like to stick to keto or a modified version of it but not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Is there anyway to use exogenous ketones to allow myself carbs before a workout without losing my progress?

Has anyone experience similar problems?

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[OXN939]

Keto can be a great tool for people who want to lose weight or make lifestyle changes, but it is, in my experience, not a performance diet. I do not know of any serious competitive athletes that follow it consistently, and I did personally watch a dude take a medevac out of the Brooks Range who wanted to do "backcountry keto."

My question would be this- if you're incorporating carbs back into your diet and seeing much better performance, why not keep that up? I agree that a lot of carbs that are commonly available in 2020 are generally not very good for you... but there are also lots of them that are considered by nutritionists to be quite healthy. Why not incorporate a small amount of high quality carbs into your diet and see how it goes?

 

[Lelder]

The question you might have to ask yourself and be really honest is are you cheating on your diet( alcohol, snacks, etc) and am I doing a “dirty” keto? What I mean by this is were you eating high fat foods that were essentially shit. When I first tried keto in January 2019 I did “dirty” keto, lost 20lbs and felt weak and miserable. All I was eating was dairy products, bacon, sausage, pork rinds, steaks which don’t get me wrong I saw the scale move but my workouts suffered. Then I found out that keto can be eaten much healthier eggs, still bacon (),avacadoes, olives, leafy greens, almonds, macadamia nuts, pecans, berries and zucchini to name some of the daily things to eat on “clean” keto. It’s been great for me since I made the switch i am honestly still surprised at my energy levels after doing a fasted hike or a weight training session. Good luck with it.

 

[willfrye027]

When you have zero carb intake, your body’s first step is to utilize glycogen (carbohydrate in storage form) stores in your liver and muscles to keep your blood sugar up and deliver energy to the rest of the body. Glycogen is what keeps your muscles supplied with energy during exercise, especially anaerobic (fast run, weight lifting, etc). On keto, even before you start exercising you are essentially at the bottom of the barrel for muscle energy.

If you can keep the exercise mostly aerobic you can keep shedding fat. But you absolutely will not get good athletic performance without some carb intake.

 

[Poser]

I agree with OXEN939, it’s just not a great performance diet. It’s also very difficult to continuously build strength without carbs. I have no doubt someone will post examples of both performance athletes and strength trainees that use Keto dieting and I am quite sure these exceptions exist, however, I am unconvinced that these examples are anything other than population outliers. You hit an anerobic threshold where the body simply cannot covert fat to energy fast enough to keep up. Based on that, if performance is your goal, Keto isn’t ideal. It might, however, be a good experiment to find out just how many and what type of carbs your body needs.

 

[Lelder]

One thing that is great is that everyone is different and can have different results from the nutrition they eat. I think carbs can be very beneficial for energy, but just like dirty keto there are junk carbs (simple sugars, candy, etc)that give you bursts of energy instead of complex carbs ( sweet potatoes, whole grains/oats, etc) that give you a more consistent glycogen (energy)supply

 

[Block]

I see too many overweight people that use Keto as an excuse to eat as much as they want,,, Iv witnessed people request no carrots on their salad only to smash 10
Slices of bacon with breakfast..it seems like a temporary weight loss fix for people that don’t have much discipline at best...if it helps you get on track that’s cool not tryin to knock you...

I have tried the carnivore diet for a month and felt great,,until I did a 12 mile hunt in nasty terrain in 90* weather. With no carbs ur body holds much less water and it’s easy to get dehydrated... this was the only time Iv ever cramped on a hike/hunt.

Joe Rogan has tried all these diets as well as talked with many health experts about them and MOST claim that these diets are a great thing to do for 1 month here and there to reset your system or get you on track,,but not healthy to do year round...

 

[OXN939]

Joe Rogan has tried all these diets as well as talked with many health experts about them and MOST claim that these diets are a great thing to do for 1 month here and there to reset your system or get you on track

Another observation I'd make is that the difference between most of these fad diets lies in which macronutrient category they designate as "bad for you" and in need of elimination. For Keto/ Paleo/ Atkins, it's carbs. Vegans/ vegetarians, it's meat protein. South Beach et al, it's fats. All you have to do is pay them a certain amount, and they'll tell you which of the three major nutrition groups is off limits.

Instead, for the vast majority of people who want to do things like backcountry hunting (or lead a healthy lifestyle), eliminating low quality nutrition of all three categories is a pretty good idea. White bread and refined sugar definitely suck, as do low grade ground beef loaded with preservatives, as do twinkies. Things that don't suck: quinoa, lean game meat, avocados. In my humblest opinion, the trend of stigmatizing entire macronutrient categories is more of a way to separate people from their paycheck than a serious dietary strategy.

Not that that advice will become popular unless someone sets up a website and charges for it.

 

[Firemedic710]

I’ve been keto/ carnivore for 6 years now. I started out doing The dirty high fat moderate protein version. Lost weight but also a lot of strength. For the last 3 years I’ve been doing high protein low to moderate clean fats depending on what my goal currently are. I have also tried Tkd or targeted keto where you use fast acting carbs just before your workout. For the last month I’ve been doing ckd or cyclical keto where you follow a very specific depletion workout followed by a strict low-fat ultra high carb refeed day. This has been the best approach so far to build strength and stay lean.
Over the years I’ve found keeping your heart rate lower while working out or out hunting or hiking is key. For me that’s about 150ish, if I do that I can hike or run all day.as soon as I go higher I bonk. Burning fats is such a slower source of energy for the body. Think of it like a diesel low rpm engine vs a high reming gas engine. The key with hunting while keto is your water and electrolytes. Most importantly your sodium.

Anyway sorry for the book I wrote but it’s definitely been a journey of mine.

 

[Mike Islander]

Same message here, no reason to stay in ketosis. You can accomplish low blood sugar and weight loss/maintenance without all the crazy effort involved.

I have the simplest non-monothetic diet that I know of. I eat meats (fish, meat, poultry) and vegetables. No boxed crap. No pre-prepared foods (except Mountainhouse when camping ).

I cheat a little with some cream and sugar in my coffee, potatoes or rice several times a week. Totally fine with a bit of dairy. Super easy, because you can pan fry (in olive oil) any of the protein I mentioned in 10 minutes plus microwave all vegetables in 4 minutes or less and get a spectacular meal that might cost you $30+ in a restaurant.

Five years of weight maintenance, with tremendous energy and no fluctuations. Simple, healthy, inexpensive.

 

[TradLife406]

Have you ever tried a high carb diet and a calorie deficit? You don't need to cut out carbs to lose weight. I've lost 60 plus lb and I eat 250-280 grams of carbs a day. Might be worth talking with a legit dietian like Kyle Kamp.

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[grfox92]

Lots of good info here guys, thank you.

 

[grfox92]

The question you might have to ask yourself and be really honest is are you cheating on your diet( alcohol, snacks, etc) and am I doing a “dirty” keto? What I mean by this is were you eating high fat foods that were essentially shit. When I first tried keto in January 2019 I did “dirty” keto, lost 20lbs and felt weak and miserable. All I was eating was dairy products, bacon, sausage, pork rinds, steaks which don’t get me wrong I saw the scale move but my workouts suffered. Then I found out that keto can be eaten much healthier eggs, still bacon (),avacadoes, olives, leafy greens, almonds, macadamia nuts, pecans, berries and zucchini to name some of the daily things to eat on “clean” keto. It’s been great for me since I made the switch i am honestly still surprised at my energy levels after doing a fasted hike or a weight training session. Good luck with it.

I usually eat pretty clean but when I go Keto a lot of the dirty stuff creeps in. I'm on week 2 of really clean keto and this is the best I ha e ever felt on it. Tons of energy all day and my endurance has not fallen off dramatically like in the past.

 

[grfox92]

Same message here, no reason to stay in ketosis. You can accomplish low blood sugar and weight loss/maintenance without all the crazy effort involved.

I have the simplest non-monothetic diet that I know of. I eat meats (fish, meat, poultry) and vegetables. No boxed crap. No pre-prepared foods (except Mountainhouse when camping ).

I cheat a little with some cream and sugar in my coffee, potatoes or rice several times a week. Totally fine with a bit of dairy. Super easy, because you can pan fry (in olive oil) any of the protein I mentioned in 10 minutes plus microwave all vegetables in 4 minutes or less and get a spectacular meal that might cost you $30+ in a restaurant.

Five years of weight maintenance, with tremendous energy and no fluctuations. Simple, healthy, inexpensive.

I eat a very clean diet compared to the average guy and for whatever the reason I flat out don't lose more then .5 a pound a week no matter my calorie deficit and output while eating even good quality carbs. I can eat the same calories a day on Keto and lose 5+ pounds a week and not be hungry all the time, which is another issue for me when I'm eating carbs.

A lot of guys would call bullshit on that but that's what I have experienced.

 

[Mike Islander]

I eat a very clean diet compared to the average guy and for whatever the reason I flat out don't lose more then .5 a pound a week no matter my calorie deficit and output while eating even good quality carbs. I can eat the same calories a day on Keto and lose 5+ pounds a week and not be hungry all the time, which is another issue for me when I'm eating carbs.

A lot of guys would call bullshit on that but that's what I have experienced.

As you can see in my diet I eat very little simple carbs. Almost all the carbs on my diet are complex carbs from the veggies. I have a hard time eating enough calories to keep weight on with a primary diet of meats and veggies, and never a need to go keto. Also never any food cravings. I pan fry my meat/fish in olive oil, so I get a good amount of healthy fats. real butter on germinated grain bread each morning as well. A lot of time guys don't count sweet snacks or alcohol, which skews their diet. I don't eat to lose weight anyway. My diet is a lifelong healthy food plan, and the results are steady weight (for five years since I started this). I've never been heavy enough to need to lose 5 lbs a week. Something would be very wrong if that happened. A 1/2 pound a week to get a bit leaner for mountain hunts seems like plenty. By Fall you'd lose 15 lbs of holiday weight, and if you gained more than that at Christmas you'd have gone way off the standard diet.

 

[LJ Buck]

The best diet is the one that works for you. Not all Carbs are equal, your body needs carbs but as a culture, we crave the wrong ones. I have never followed a Keto diet but my body is carb sensitive. I consume a fair amount of Veggies for my carbs as well as fruits as well. If you need carbs to perform then eat them just follow a Paleo-style mentality.

Don't forget to get your fats in, obviously healthy fats but you will notice a drastic difference in recovery once you focus on getting them. Break your Macros out like this to reach your caloric intake. First, get your protein needs and then your fats and fill the rest of the balance with healthy carbs, and don't forget your fiber, your body needs it to accomplish what you want, performance and weight loss.

This is just my opinion based on experience.

 

[pk_]

I did Keto for 2 months. For me I think it was unnecessary, I didn’t need to loose weight I just wanted to be healthier(drank the kool laid). I did not feel healthy on that diet and I lost a lot of my energy. I play basketball 3-4x a week (pre-corona) and I felt like I was dying on the court when I am usually able to outrun anybody, even the kids 10 years younger than me.

I went back to a boring healthy balanced diet. Been feeling great again ever since. I think Keto is great for certain people/lifestyles just not me or mine.

Good luck.

 

[Frito]

My experience and opinion of the keto diet seems to differ from the majority on here. I've always considered myself to be very hardy, healthy and lean. I was a Marine and triathlete for many years but as I neared my 40's I was just starting to feel my age and gain weight that I didn't like. I started keto and the weight melted off. I went through about a 2 month period where my performance and strength dropped, but once I was fat adapted I have better endurance and strength than I did when I was 20. I stick to it because I was beginning to deal with hypoglycemia and sciatica and I'm absolutely convinced that the diet has cured both. These days I am averaging about 50 grams total carbs a week, and at a point where I'll go completely carnivorous for a week or more at a time. I don't count carbs because I don't fool with them much on a regular basis. About twice a month I'll do a couple of 50 to 100 carb a day cheating with rice, beans or potatoes just to get it out of my system. I find it to be a great performance diet and wish I would have started it when I was competing. Now I'm just a has been. Took me 40 years to get really healthy. I'm still drinking the Kool-aid.

 

[cured_ham]

I would try to increase protein percentage to around 40% of your calories. Gluconegoenesis will help refill those glycogen stores. Also understand that the more active you are the more carbohydrates you can have prior to workouts.

 

[V2Pnutrition]

@grfox92

I won’t go through and repeat what everyone else here as said, but I’ll contribute this and hope you find it helpful.

Fat CAN be used as an energy source, but the process from fat break down (this is stored fat, by the way-not something you’ve eaten recently) to useable energy is quite long. The flip side of this is carbohydrates are metabolized quite rapidly, contribute to stable blood sugar levels during exercise and help replace lost carbohydrate stores (glycogen) to help fuel your next endeavor.

This largely explains what you’re feeling.

Also, for what it’s worth, my degree is in dietetics and I’m a Registered Dietitian by profession. This isn’t to say my words here are authoritative and absolute. But, it is to say the answer is supported by science and not some guy Googling in his mom’s basement. .