Lost big bull, possible broadhead/equipment issue?

[BCD]

My brother used to use Rage and after a PATTERN of shit penetration he threw them all away. We've both been shooting slicktricks for years now with great results.

 

[jog]

There are broad head failure tests out there that show that the highest failures of any design is mechanical heads. We can spend a year talking about mechanicals that did the job etc, but if you want heads that do not fail as often or not at all, you will have to concede that mechanicals are not the best choice and frankly they are unnecessary. Static head designs are very effective. There are a ton of choices and some of them have track records that are absolutely stellar.

 

[5MilesBack]

Next season I am going to try G5 Stryker Magnum 1.5" cut.

The steep blade angle on that head could be a problem with breaking blades on elk ribs. You want a more tapered head design, rather than punching a fixed blade through like is what that Striker Magnum would be doing. I've broken those Striker Magnum blades just shooting them through 3/4" plywood.

I've shot big bulls with mechanicals and still haven't gotten a passthrough with them. Both heads were over the top 3-blade 1.5" cut heads and one was slightly quartering to, and the other was hard quartering away. Both heads tore those bulls up, but even shooting 75lbs and 32 1/2" draw with a 520gr arrow they didn't pass through.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

PM sent

 

[corey006]

The steep blade angle on that head could be a problem with braking blades on elk ribs. You want a more tapered head design, rather than punching a fixed blade through like is what that Striker Magnum would be doing. I've broken those Striker Magnum blades just shooting them through 3/4" plywood.

I've shot big bulls with mechanicals and still haven't gotten a passthrough with them. Both heads were over the top 3-blade 1.5" cut heads and one was slightly quartering to, and the other was hard quartering away. Both heads tore those bulls up, but even shooting 75lbs and 32 1/2" draw with a 520gr arrow they didn't pass through.

I bought a couple packs to test....I still have some Moose ribs to test on..... interesting to see what Lutz blades will do when punching directly through moose rib.



I guess I will have to spring for some Bishop Holy Trinity?

What are your thoughts on Steelforce Phathead 145gr?

I was also looking at Wicked Tricks.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

I guess I will have to spring for some Bishop Holy Trinity?

What are your thoughts on Steelforce Phathead 145gr?

These are $11 a head and hold their edge very well, extremely tough, thick, and break bone very well. I have shot these in bone and the edge has held up better than Grizzlystik samurais.

 

[mag1]

I know lots of whitetail guys have had good success, and bad success with the Rage. I personally have never used them, a buddy does. he swears by them, but when you see lots of guys with marginal hits, sometimes slightly off angles, and they will angle off, others will get very little penetration. so many factors, and many have brought them up as well. Personally, I like a heavy arrow, and 2 blade single bevel, and thats for whitetails. 575 grain total weight. sorry to hear about the difficulties

 

[805Bowhunter]

Not sure you can blame this on a Rage. I think the broadhead debate is a bit tired. Both fixed and expandable work well given your setup is correct. For every person that says someone should not use expandables for poor penetration etc, there's someone shooting fixed who doesn't know how to tune their bow. Expandables shot with low draw or arrow weight will have a higher tendency for failure/lack of penetration. Hunters who throw a fixed blade on their arrows the morning of the hunt and then wonder why their shot hit in the wrong place, that's not good either.

The biggest issue is to know your bow and what you are shooting. Do your homework in the winter and spring. That way when the season comes around, you know exactly where your arrows should be hitting. There are SO many variables that go into a shot like the OP brought up. It really sucks to have something like this happen...but unfortunately it is a part of bowhunting. Nobody ever wants it to happen and it is completely gut wrenching. On my elk hunt, I carry two G5 strikers, two rage trypans, and a judo tip for grouse. Everything in my quiver has a place and a shot that I am comfortable taking with it. Regardless, it still doesn't account for everything that can happen during a bowhunt. A hit rib, a branch en route, hit high, hit low, animal jumps the string etc.

Take the lessons of a situation like this and try to utilize it for motivation in your practice today. I feel like the best foundation for next years bowhunts begins right now. I know a lot of bowhunters that are over it after season and put the bow down for a few months. Honestly for me, it is when I take all of my fresh lessons from my experiences and start ironing them out. My best opportunity for success next year, I feel, is hard work starting this time of year. You'll never be able to control all of the variables in a hunt, but you can certainly put yourself in a better spot for success next year by starting to work hard now.

 

[jog]

Not sure you can blame this on a Rage. I think the broadhead debate is a bit tired...

This isn't a debate unless it is specifically about angles, tuning, placement etc. Regardless of what blade design you choose, to imply mechanicals have the same history of success as a fixed blade regarding performance is simply not accurate. There is no debate about that. Shoot what you want, but don't put spin on the story by suggesting a blades design is not as important a consideration in determining success as anything else. Broadheads that fail to perform upon penetration are poor designs, period, in this day and age, and there are a number of them. As ethical hunters we should at least agree on that. The rest of your post I can get behind.

 

[5MilesBack]

Broadheads that fail to perform upon penetration are poor designs, period, in this day and age, and there are a number of them. As ethical hunters we should at least agree on that.

Personally, I believe that we have a lot of great BH's on the market these days. They all have a purpose and in most cases will work just fine as long as the archer does his job.......both before and during the hunt. I haven't seen many poor designs these days.

 

[805Bowhunter]

This isn't a debate unless it is specifically about angles, tuning, placement etc. Regardless of what blade design you choose, to imply mechanicals have the same history of success as a fixed blade regarding performance is simply not accurate. There is no debate about that. Shoot what you want, but don't put spin on the story by suggesting a blades design is not as important a consideration in determining success as anything else. Broadheads that fail to perform upon penetration are poor designs, period, in this day and age, and there are a number of them. As ethical hunters we should at least agree on that. The rest of your post I can get behind.

I agree and my intention was not to imply that expandable broadheads have had the same success as fixed by any means. Its a really good point to bring up as you are absolutely correct. My point in the "debate being tired" is that these threads tend to spiral out of control with the back and forth of "I am a fixed guy because _________________" and "I am an expandable user because ________________." I think a lot of knowledge tends to get lost in the tedious back and forth (which it seemed like this thread may go that direction) without looking at the bigger picture. I especially agree with your statement about broadheads that fail to perform. This is unfortunately a big issue and why I stated that it is paramount that hunters do the work now and through the winter on learning what works. I also find in my experience (I shoot probably 80% fixed/20% mechanical) that in talking with other hunters, a lot of folks dont shoot their bows with broadheads until they are out in the field. This to me is just as unethical as someone who is using some crappy expandable because who knows where their arrow is going to go once it leaves the bow. My point was simply an untuned fixed blade is just as bad as a POS expandable. It is the hunter's ethical responsibility to figure all of this stuff prior to season so that when they get into the field, once their arrow leaves their bow, regardless what they are shooting, they know its putting them in the best possible situation to make a clean kill.

I appreciate the dialogue

 

[wapitibob]

I've killed enough bulls with fixed heads as well as spitfire mechanicals to know when I shoot a bull with a spitfire he will bleed more than any fixed head I've used in 45 years and he'll be on the ground, dead, in less time.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

I had a 3 blade rage ten years ago that only went 2-3 inches into a small whitetail doe at 20 yards. I was shooting a Mathews Drenalin at 60lbs and 27” draw. Not exactly killing it on power and it showed. I won’t shoot them at a deer much less a elk. So many better fixed choices

 

[AGPank]

These are $11 a head and hold their edge very well, extremely tough, thick, and break bone very well. I have shot these in bone and the edge has held up better than Grizzlystik samurais.

What head is that?

 

[Marble]

This arrow went through a cow broadside and then hit this tree. Arrow weight 512 at 274 fps.

The bow your buddy is shooting is just fine. But if he is going to shoot that, add some weight to that arrow and a cut on contact broadhead. Just my opinion.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

What head is that?

It's a VanDieman from Australia. I order them from Gidgee Sticks off facebook (owner Dan Telow) and they generally charge $66 for six or $33 for 3 and that's including shipping. Granted I try to keep as much money as I can to US companies but when you find a good head you have to buy it.

http://www.gidgeesticks.com.au/

 

[AGPank]

View attachment 124296

This arrow went through a cow broadside and then hit this tree. Arrow weight 512 at 274 fps.

The bow your buddy is shooting is just fine. But if he is going to shoot that, add some weight to that arrow and a cut on contact broadhead. Just my opinion.

Is that a Simmons head? Curious on wound/blood trail


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[Marble]

Is that a Simmons head? Curious on wound/blood trail


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Kudupoint. Had blood within 5 to 7' coming out both sides. She only went 20 yards and there was an easy trail to follow. Ive seen much larger blood trails.

Friend of mine killed a deer last year. High double lung. Went about 400 yards downhill before it bedded up and died. It barely bled. Very difficult to trail.

I think the downside to a two blade is the potential for less blood trailing. But the upside is penetration and making a marginal shot be the best it can be.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Kudupoint. Had blood within 5 to 7' coming out both sides. She only went 20 yards and there was an easy trail to follow. Ive seen much larger blood trails.

Friend of mine killed a deer last year. High double lung. Went about 400 yards downhill before it bedded up and died. It barely bled. Very difficult to trail.

I think the downside to a two blade is the potential for less blood trailing. But the upside is penetration and making a marginal shot be the best it can be.

I have had the same result on a deer shot with a Slicktrick Magnum from a treestand. High double lung and that whitetail ran over 3/4 of mile (from the tracking dogs gps). In all honesty, from the heads I have shot, I have came to the conclusion that how many blades doesn't matter.

The broadheads I seem to get great blood trails from are broadheads made from quality steel, with thick blades thst have a good rockwell hardness, whether two blade or multiple blades (RMS Cutthroat, VanDieam, Ironwills, Exodus, VPA two or three blade etc). Because as the blade is passing through the head stays extremely sharp. If a broadheads stays sharp going through the animal the less likelyhood the cut will clot and generally the faster that animals blood pressure will drop and then die.

 

[KHNC]

With all the knowledge and recommendations online, i dont see why anyone still tries to rely on a straight mechanical head for elk. I used a gravedigger hybrid on my last two bull kills this year and last year. However, the penetration still isnt satisfactory and I will be using magnus stinger 100 fixed blades next year.