Making sure I’m not wasting money - MT preference points

[bsnedeker]

I never said they were doing anything wrong, or that anyone was getting screwed. I was simply pointing out that your supply/demand argument was incorrect. But don’t hurt yourself too bad when you fall off that high horse.


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Ahh, you were just being pedantic and pointing out that I didn't use precisely the correct terminology.

Thanks for your contribution.

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[bsnedeker]

Thanks gents. The way I’m reading it is that I should keep my PP from last year because I applied (unsuccessfully) and I’ll also accrue a PP for this year. I’ll go into the draw next year with 2 points, plus the third at application time… but I must apply next year or they all get flushed. Looks like MT again in 2023!

Correct. Like I said up top, better to call FWP so you are 100% sure rather than listen to a bunch of randoms on the internet, but if you applied last year you are good as long as you apply next year.

 

[Keith Stone]

Thanks gents. The way I’m reading it is that I should keep my PP from last year because I applied (unsuccessfully) and I’ll also accrue a PP for this year. I’ll go into the draw next year with 2 points, plus the third at application time… but I must apply next year or they all get flushed. Looks like MT again in 2023!

You better call because according to the very patient lady I spoke with up there a few months ago your gonna lose your points. If you have 2 points going into this year (from the system prior to this year) you need to apply or lose them. If you have 1 point going forward after this year you will need to enter the draw to avoid losing your points.

This dude is right.

If you had 1 PP last year and did not apply FOR A DEER OR ELK LICENSE this year, you failed to apply in consecutive years, so on or about April 1, 2022, your accumulated PP should be deleted. You can apply for a PP from July 1-Dec 31, 2022 and go into March 2023 application period carrying 1 PP.

I have said it elsewhere, but it is my understanding that you can always start off with a PP only, but ONCE YOU HAVE A PP, YOU MUST APPLY FOR A COMBO LICENSE EVERY YEAR OR YOUR ACCUMULATED PP WILL BE DELETED.

The exact wording of the regulation is below, which may not ready exactly what it says in the regulation booklet. Read (ii) closely. Application deadline is soon, so call Montana FWP Licensing and get their answer in writing.

Montana HB 637:

The department shall delete the an applicant's accumulated preference points if the applicant:
(i) obtains a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license; or
(ii) does not apply for a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license in consecutive years.
(b) If an applicant is unsuccessful in drawing a Class B-10 or Class B-11 license, the department shall
allow the applicant to keep and apply preference points to subsequent drawings if done in consecutive year

And this dude is wrong.

You are reading that wrong. It says if you "Do not apply in consecutive years" you lose your point.

That doesn't mean you need to apply every year. It means you will lose your point if you don't apply for 2 years in a row (2 consecutive years).

You must apply every other year at minimum to not lose your points.

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[bsnedeker]

You better call because according to the very patient lady I spoke with up there a few months ago your gonna lose your points. If you have 2 points going into this year (from the system prior to this year) you need to apply or lose them. If you have 1 point going forward after this year you will need to enter the draw to avoid losing your points.

This dude is right.


And this dude is wrong.

lol

You should share your wisdom with the dudes over at GoHunt:

"As of 2022, preference points are now $100 each and applicants must apply every other year or the state will zero any accumulated preference points. No one may hold more than 3 preference points."

Montana's point system breakdown

Differences in preference points vs bonus points

www.gohunt.com

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[Keith Stone]

lol

You should share your wisdom with the dudes over at GoHunt:

"As of 2022, preference points are now $100 each and applicants must apply every other year or the state will zero any accumulated preference points. No one may hold more than 3 preference points."

Montana's point system breakdown

Differences in preference points vs bonus points

www.gohunt.com

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Not really wisdom just relaying what I was told. No dog in this fight but as much confusion that has revolved around it this year I would get my answer in writing from the source.

 

[bsnedeker]

Not really wisdom just relaying what I was told. No dog in this fight but as much confusion that has revolved around it this year I would get my answer in writing from the source.

100% agree.

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[fatlander]

lol

You should share your wisdom with the dudes over at GoHunt:

"As of 2022, preference points are now $100 each and applicants must apply every other year or the state will zero any accumulated preference points. No one may hold more than 3 preference points."

Montana's point system breakdown

Differences in preference points vs bonus points

www.gohunt.com

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You’ve reiterated that folks should call FWP throughout this thread. A guy calls FWP, reports the synopsis of his call, and tells you that you’re wrong. Then you quote gohunt?

Come on man…


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[bsnedeker]

You’ve reiterated that folks should call FWP throughout this thread. A guy calls FWP, reports the synopsis of his call, and tells you that you’re wrong. Then you quote gohunt?

Come on man…


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He clearly talked to the wrong person. Believe what you want dude, I could not care less.

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[HandgunHTR]

I guess we will find out one way or another. I have a point that I purchased last year. I did not/am not applying this year as I am going to be hunting Colorado. If my point disappears, we will know the "apply every year if you have a point" crowd is correct. If it doesn't disappear, we know that the "apply every other year" crowd is correct. I honestly don't really want to hunt MT in 2024 either as I have a moose hunt planned. I started getting points last year because I wanted to go into 2025 with 3 points, but it looks like that isn't going to happen. Oh well, I guess I will just have to either wing it or not hunt MT. It does suck a bit that you lose your points if you draw the general tag, but don't draw the limited tag that you applied for. Makes planning a bit harder.

 

[Riplip]

lol

You should share your wisdom with the dudes over at GoHunt:

"As of 2022, preference points are now $100 each and applicants must apply every other year or the state will zero any accumulated preference points. No one may hold more than 3 preference points."

Montana's point system breakdown

Differences in preference points vs bonus points

www.gohunt.com

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For what it's worth I just got off a call with FWP and she told me that you must apply each year or you will lose any accumulated points. I asked her to please confirm with whomever else was in the office, which she did.

Not arguing or stating you are wrong, just reporting what I was told. It does not matter to me as I have already submitted my application, in with two points as I did not draw last year.

The language they used in the update is absolutely horrible.

 

[bsnedeker]

For what it's worth I just got off a call with FWP and she told me that you must apply each year or you will lose any accumulated points. I asked her to please confirm with whomever else was in the office, which she did.

Not arguing or stating you are wrong, just reporting what I was told. It does not matter to me as I have already submitted my application, in with two points as I did not draw last year.

The language they used in the update is absolutely horrible.

Well, I guess everyone should apply every year. I attended the FWP meetings where they discussed this. The law is designed so people have to apply every other year, but hey, if the people at FWP are telling you different I would go with them over me.

I agree the language in the law is horrible.

 

[tdhanses]

I don't apply in other states, but isn't that how most of them work? If you choose not to buy a point during application you don't get the option to buy later if you don't draw. I could be totally wrong of course, but I thought that was the case in most western states.

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WY sells them separate later in the year.

 

[bsnedeker]

I guess we will find out one way or another. I have a point that I purchased last year. I did not/am not applying this year as I am going to be hunting Colorado. If my point disappears, we will know the "apply every year if you have a point" crowd is correct. If it doesn't disappear, we know that the "apply every other year" crowd is correct. I honestly don't really want to hunt MT in 2024 either as I have a moose hunt planned. I started getting points last year because I wanted to go into 2025 with 3 points, but it looks like that isn't going to happen. Oh well, I guess I will just have to either wing it or not hunt MT. It does suck a bit that you lose your points if you draw the general tag, but don't draw the limited tag that you applied for. Makes planning a bit harder.

If they delete points from people I think they are going to have a class action lawsuit on their hands...I really would hate to see that. If they wanted require people to apply every year they could have easily worded it to say that. In the meetings I attended where they discussed this they said in clear, plain english, that the intention was to require an application every other year minimum. It's crazy to me they are this mixed up about it....but it's FWP so I'm not sure why I'm so suprised.

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[ez_willie]

I feel like I just got off the phone with FWP after reading this thread

 

[Riplip]

Well, I guess everyone should apply every year. I attended the FWP meetings where they discussed this. The law is designed so people have to apply every other year, but hey, if the people at FWP are telling you different I would go with them over me.

I agree the language in the law is horrible.

Honestly even after talking to them directly I am not convinced. While not perfect, I have generally liked MT's NR system in the past, hope they get things together at some point.

 

[fatlander]

That aged well. . Listen to the FWP, until I disagree with the FWP. .


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[Erict]

I have a very concise email in to MT FWP Licensing asking for written clarification. When I get a reply I will recontact them to be sure their answer has been reviewed for accuracy by someone of authority. I will post the findings in this thread.

Whatever we learn, it's not about who's right or wrong - it's about getting a definitive answer AND trying to get MT FWP to modify the wording on the website/guide books so the average Joe understands what their options are.

(Today was the close of the elk/deer application period, so I told them I know they are extremely busy and that I would be patient waiting for a reply. Stay tuned.....)

 

[Trap]

My beef is the outfitter welfare they slid through the back door. That wasn’t capitalism. You can fill in the blank…


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I agree with this. The rest of Montana system is good. I also don’t understand why everyone complains how “confusing “ it is. The outfitter welfare is bull crap the rest of the system is fine

 

[bsnedeker]

That aged well. . Listen to the FWP, until I disagree with the FWP. .


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I actually did say to listen to them if you pulled your head out of your butt long enough to read. Never said anyone should listen to me. I still think FWP is wrong, got what is worth. The language of the statute says you lose your points if you do not apply in consecutive years. I don't see how they can justify taking points from someone for skipping one year.... so yeah, I think they are going to get some lawsuits over this.

How many commission meetings did you attend this year out of curiosity?

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[bsnedeker]

I agree with this. The rest of Montana system is good. I also don’t understand why everyone complains how “confusing “ it is. The outfitter welfare is bull crap the rest of the system is fine

While I agree with you the outfitter stuff is bad, I disagree that it isn't Capitalism. Capitalism is a great system, but it's not perfect. One of the negatives of living in a capitalistic society is that moneyed interests are going to work to exert control in the regulatory process.

The good news is we can, and have been, fighting it. Unfortunately Worsech is not an elected official, he was appointed by the governor, and takes his orders from him. It's extremely frustrating.

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