Measuring powder

mvmnts

WKR
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Feb 2, 2017
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Just a quick sanity test before I go out and shoot my ML for the first time. I weighed out 6 powder charges into tubes for the trip. I am using BH209, and I'm using the scale on my RCBS Chargemaster Lite. (It's not the best scale, but it's putting out 1/3MOA 6.5CM cartridges which suit me just fine) I just measure blackpowder in grains just like I would regular smokeless powder correct? My scale is set to grains and I measured out 110grains to start. The reason I ask is that the BH209 branded tubes which have markings by volume do not even come close to correlating to what I have put in there. I know it's probably best practice to always weigh your powder out, but I'd have thought they'd at least do a somewhat decent job of printing accurate markings on their own tubes. My 110gr load comes all the way up to the bottom edge of the orange cap, way beyond the 120gr max that the tube has printed. Everything okay with this?
 

ENCORE

WKR
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Aug 5, 2017
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NE Michigan
BH209 by weight must be used with the conversion number Western provides. If you weigh out 100grs BY WEIGHT, you're using an actual 142.85 grs by volume and over charging.

So if you take the maximum charge recommended by Western of 120grs VOLUME.
120 x .7 = 84grs by WEIGHT is a maximum charge.
Or say 100grs volume
100 x .7 = 70grs by WEIGHT.

Your charge of 110grs by volume...… 110 x .7 = 77grs by WEIGHT.

The tubes branded for BH209 are known to be WAY OFF. Do not rely on them.

Either use a quality volume measure, or use the conversion provided by Western.

#5 under FAQ http://www.blackhorn209.com/faqs/

If you prefer to weigh charges, you can convert the volume load recommendations into weighed grains by multiplying the volume load by 0.7. Example: 100 units by volume x 0.7 = 70 grains by weight. 110 volume charge x 0.7 = 77 grains by weight.
 

muddydogs

WKR
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May 3, 2017
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Utah
Just a quick sanity test before I go out and shoot my ML for the first time. I weighed out 6 powder charges into tubes for the trip. I am using BH209, and I'm using the scale on my RCBS Chargemaster Lite. (It's not the best scale, but it's putting out 1/3MOA 6.5CM cartridges which suit me just fine) I just measure blackpowder in grains just like I would regular smokeless powder correct? My scale is set to grains and I measured out 110grains to start. The reason I ask is that the BH209 branded tubes which have markings by volume do not even come close to correlating to what I have put in there. I know it's probably best practice to always weigh your powder out, but I'd have thought they'd at least do a somewhat decent job of printing accurate markings on their own tubes. My 110gr load comes all the way up to the bottom edge of the orange cap, way beyond the 120gr max that the tube has printed. Everything okay with this?

No everything is not okay with this, your working on blowing up your rifle and hurting yourself. Your not measuring black powder your measuring a black Powder substitute which is not the same. Like the post above states use the .7 conversion for BH209. If you'r weighting any other black powder substitute like pyrodex that doesn't have a conversion factor to use you need to throw volume measurements into a scale pan to get the weight for a given volume
 

rayporter

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Jul 3, 2014
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arkansas or ohio
first powder is meant to be weighed. and you need to use the conversion factor for the 209. volume measurement is only for a convenience [because it is hard to carry a scale]

it is hard to manufacture powder to the exact same specifications and pressure and velocity from batch to batch. if you measure there will be differences in your charge weight. if you weigh they will all be the same and your odds of getting consistent velocity are increased but, however, are not guaranteed.
recent batches of 209 are a few feet per second different that older batches. it is the nature of the beast.


with practice you can get fairly good at volume measuring but those pesky differences may show up in your next jug of powder.

the good thing about ML rifles is the nature of the propellants are very forgiving of small differences in charge weights and for this reason small differences don't have much effect on the projectiles accuracy or its effectiveness.
 
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I have never weighed my powder. Volume only. It pays to remember that when 95% of people are talking "X grns of powder" there are talking VOLUME, not weight. Always research and use the conversion factors if weighing.

I got good accuracy with volume and never saw the need to go to the trouble of weighing out my loads. And there is ZERO reason to do that when just starting out. All you are doing at this point is learning to shoot a muzzleloader. There are so many things you need to worry about before you think about weighing a load.

So for a while I would absolutely recommend you just measure out powder by volume. So much easier and faster and you can do it AT THE RANGE.

That said, once you know what you are doing, and want to fine tune a load, then maybe it is worth while. But before you decide that for sure, take some premeasured loads and shoot those, then try some volume loads and see how they compare. I never shoot past 150 yards (open sight only in Colorado), and out to that distance, how you measure powder doesn't really matter.
 
OP
mvmnts

mvmnts

WKR
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So I figured this out first hand, as I went to the range with 6 charges, and then was like shit, now what? So I just eyeballed the powder by volume and that turned out to be just fine. I was dropping shots on top of one another at 100 yards. I still had a lot of strange issues that have yet to be diagnosed that have broken my confidence a bit, so I'll need another couple weekends to sort everything out. The first bullet failed to fire twice, which was really anxiety inducing. I waited a while and then dropped the charge out the back of the gun. Then when I finally got it to fire it came out like an airgun, soft and quiet and hardly any recoil. Which was really cool actually, but not what I needed. The next 14 rounds came out perfect, but I had two flyers that were 6" right. I think I have that down to a loose scope mount (rookie move). But I'm still trying to figure out why that first bullet didn't seat well, and whether or not my thor bullets are seating properly. The .501 is a touch loose if you ask me, but fits, and the .502 is nearly impossible. So I'm worried in the field the .501's may shift or get knocked loose. Lot to consider and iron out in the next few weeks.
 

ENCORE

WKR
Joined
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Messages
601
Location
NE Michigan
So I figured this out first hand, as I went to the range with 6 charges, and then was like shit, now what? So I just eyeballed the powder by volume and that turned out to be just fine. I was dropping shots on top of one another at 100 yards. I still had a lot of strange issues that have yet to be diagnosed that have broken my confidence a bit, so I'll need another couple weekends to sort everything out. The first bullet failed to fire twice, which was really anxiety inducing. I waited a while and then dropped the charge out the back of the gun. Then when I finally got it to fire it came out like an airgun, soft and quiet and hardly any recoil. Which was really cool actually, but not what I needed. The next 14 rounds came out perfect, but I had two flyers that were 6" right. I think I have that down to a loose scope mount (rookie move). But I'm still trying to figure out why that first bullet didn't seat well, and whether or not my thor bullets are seating properly. The .501 is a touch loose if you ask me, but fits, and the .502 is nearly impossible. So I'm worried in the field the .501's may shift or get knocked loose. Lot to consider and iron out in the next few weeks.

Just speculating, but your first bullet failing to fire, very well could have been lubricant caused. If lubricant is in, or seeps into your flash hole and flash channel, it very well could have been your issue. It happens and one way to prevent it is to swab the rifle well with a clean patch/s, then fire a couple primers ONLY. Firing the primers ONLY before loading will burn any lubricants within the flash channel and flash hole of the breech plug.
Start out with a lubricant free rifle and breech plug.
 

muddydogs

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May 3, 2017
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Utah
First round failing to go off was probably a contamination issue, oil in the chamber or flash channel.

Measuring powder before hand is faster and less waist full then volume measuring at the range, I know I don't want to mess around with a pound of powder and a volume measure when all I have to do is unscrew a cap and pour the charge into the barrel.

Check out these powder tubes, the 5ml hold 120 grains of BH209. https://www.ebay.com/itm/25-Blackho...jsAAOSwofxUiaMi:sc:USPSFirstClass!84401!US!-1
 

PAhunter58

Lil-Rokslider
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Mar 27, 2018
Messages
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PA
Wow, Glad he asked the question. That would have been real interesting if he'd had gone a tryed that load.
As for the BH209 Volume Tubes, I have noticed some of mine were calibrated off some. It pays to check with a quality volume tool. Glad the OP asked the question.
 
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