Merits of MRAD over MOA

[lyle_destroys]

Can somebody give me a little bit of an education on the pros of using mil-based measurement for long range shooting vs moa. I've taught myself using moa but it seems all serious shooters go with mil optics.

 

[Lawnboi]

So long as you understand it as an angle and not in inches or meters then it’s a wash imo
I prefer Mils, but have both moa and mil scopes. If I could go back I’d do all mil scopes. Just easier on my brain.

 

[Broz]

There is nothing wrong with either. Go with what you understand the best. There are plenty of MOA shooters out there that do just fine too.

 

[.270]

I have both mil and moa scopes and I like my moa scopes better. Its just easier for me to understand. Not sure why mil is supposedly better for long range shooting.

 

[tdhanses]

I have both and like both, I go with what’s the best deal when purchasing.

 

[Wrench]

Mils are more coarse adjustments and work in 10's. We tend to think in 10's.

At the end of the day it's as simple as an engineer's tape vs a carpenter's...one in 10ths one in inches.

Just know that a a circle is divided by a name be it degrees and minutes of angles or divisions of radian......its all a measurement, just slightly different values and different names. It does pay to pick one and master it before you mix and match.
If you make the transition from moa to mil just know that your single click that used to take you .25" @ 100yards is now going to be. 36" at the same distance.

Mils are cool because they work in yards or meters.

 

[WCB]

There is nothing wrong with either. Go with what you understand the best. There are plenty of MOA shooters out there that do just fine too.

I agree. Make sure your reticle and dials match and it really doesn't matter.

 

[Journeyman]

It’s already been said but it really don’t matter, get a good reticle and you no longer have to think in feet or inches.

The thing I personally don’t like about MOA is the fact that a difference exist between TMOA and SMOA whereas a mil is a mil.

 

[16Bore]

When the reticle matches the dial, it’s like having a yard stick attached to your scope.

Forget about “linear” measurements. DOPE says dial 3.5, dial 3.5 or hold 1/2 way between the 3rd and 4th hash. Same same

 

[Lwilliams]

I have and use both. I tend to use more mil than moa just because that is what I have more of. MOA is close to 1” at 100 yards so most people starting out think this way. I don’t know if many hunting scopes that adjust in IPHY. When it comes to mils it’s easy if you realize 1 mil at 1000” is 1”, 1mil at 1000’ is 1’, 1 mil at 1000 miles is 1 mile. Units of 10 in whatever measurement you choose to use makes it easy in my simple mind.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Have used both. Using logic like “I think in inches not centimetres” holds no water. Same thing with quarter scale vs tenth scale.




as It pertains to past point blank range to 600 or so mils is unequivocally superior.

the first is cognitive. It’s easier and faster to recall smaller numbers.

the second is using a windbracket. There isnt a scale with MOA to make wind calls in the intuitive, linear fashion that we can with a mil based system.

 

[BCD]

Have used both. Using logic like “I think in inches not centimetres” holds no water. Same thing with quarter scale vs tenth scale.




as It pertains to past point blank range to 600 or so mils is unequivocally superior.

the first is cognitive. It’s easier and faster to recall smaller numbers.

the second is using a windbracket. There isnt a scale with MOA to make wind calls in the intuitive, linear fashion that we can with a mil based system.

Can you please explain how one would go about establishing a wind bracket?

Thank You!

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Formidilosus wrote about it 6-7 years ago either on here or 24hourcampfire so feel free to search for it and brush up on the original explanation.

Short version. Find a mph wind value that deflects your bullet and .1mils per 100 yards

so for instance using my current load .536g1 bc at 2950 using 5390 DAP ( 4,200ft, 58 degree, 29.90 barometric pressure)

a 6.5 mph full value wind wind deflect at

100 yards. .1 mils
200 yards. .2 mils
300 yards. .3 mils
400 yards. .4 mils
500 yards. .5 mils
600 yards. .6 mils

 

[BuckeyeRifleman]

I use both, but once you get used to it mils is way easier.

A 500 yard shot for me is 2.8 mils and 9.75 MOA. Working in factors of 10 is way easier (for me) under pressure. A 800 yard shot is 6.0 mils and 20.75 MOA. Going to 6.0 is way easier than trying to find 20.75.

Some people like MOA because 1 MOA is just about 1inch at 100 yards. Yes, zeroing at the range, shooting bench rest, etc MOA is probably a little easier. But I’ve found in real world use on either live or steel targets trying to quickly laze, dial, and shoot mils is way more intuitive.

Bottom line it’s a personal preference thing. Nothing wrong with MOA, but there is a reason mils is much more popular with the PRS crowd.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

Not to be obtuse but howdo you come up with a firing solution using your method without doing math Or memorizatioN?


That’s a real question.


with mils, what my range finder spits out is my wind call at 6.5mph at that distance.

Now we can talk about how we take that data and use it to effectively but let’s focus on no math, no recall (memorization) way to get valid accurate data points for wind in the field, under duress.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

I’m bored waiting for to dinner cook so I drew this up. Hope it helps. Had fun remembering a kill I had the last go round on a giant tahr.. it jumped to an unrecoverable spot. In Tahr country shots can can be real fast paced. A friend might drop a nanny for the pot and a bedded bull might stand up for a second before he bolts in a totally different spot and there just isn’t time to consult the ballistic calculator.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

I typed up a bunch of crap about dimensionless units and looked down and my little man had a blow out on my jacket. Prophetic.

Redo.


I’m willing to accept new datasets. Can you pick a distance and wind call and work me through the process of how to come up with a firing solution for wind Fairly rapidly without
using or consulting electronics


I bring new hunters often into the field where shots are not ELR but not 200 chip shots. It’d be a lot easier to reference MOA scale for those guys taking elementary baby steps. I don’t have a spare 5700 kestrel and blue tooth syncable rangefinder.

with my dad It was hopeless. 75 year olds aren’t open to new datasets.

 

[Mike 338]

I like MRAD because smaller numbers/adjustments are easier to remember and the reticle tends to be slightly less cluttered. Both are fine however and I'd buy the one that costs less.

 

[WeiserBucks]

I like MRAD because smaller numbers/adjustments are easier to remember and the reticle tends to be slightly less cluttered. Both are fine however and I'd buy the one that costs less.

1/4 MOA is smaller than .1 MIL . . . .

 

[wind gypsy]

1/4 MOA is smaller than .1 MIL . . . .

I think his point is that 0.25 has more digits than 0.1.

edit: or 6.3 mil vs 21.75 MOA for example. It’s even quicker to spit out mils than minutes or MOA in verbal communication.