Mid layer, fleece or merino

Joined
Apr 19, 2019
Messages
96
I am a big fan of merino in next to skin applications and will always wear merino base layers and boxers. However my question is regarding mid layer pieces. Have you had better luck with a second merino piece or a grid backed fleece option. Best comparison I can come up with would be the kiln vs the klamath from FL. Thanks for the feedback guys.
 

Drenalin

WKR
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
2,658
Fleece over merino almost every time. I've tried one merino layer over another, and it doesn't do nearly as much for me as fleece over merino. My only exception to this is the Sawtooth jacket from First Lite.
 

jd1006

WKR
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
379
I think it is mostly personal preference and stink. Either way can work…whitetail hunting I will use a lot more merino layers. When I’m hiking a lot, it’s mostly synthetic. The one exception is the Apex Hoody, which I love and will wear as an outer layer because of the functionality built into it.
 

Hondo

WKR
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
367
Most the time I prefer fleece over a Merino base layer because I find that many synthetic mid-layers have a higher warmth to weight ratio and they tend to dry much quicker. There are exceptions as jd1006 pointed out. I too will wear an Sitka Apex Hoody over a lighter base and have done the same with a First Lite Sawtooth, but I use both not because they are merino but because they are well designed functional pieces that happen to feature merino.
 

Bump79

WKR
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Messages
925
There's logic to the application of merino and synthetic. Merino holds up to 33% of it's weight in water. Allowing it to wick some water away from your skin while remaining warm because it stores water inside the core of the fiber and not the exterior like a nylon. It is also extremely breathable.

Polyester only retains .3% water and it is also able to be lofted into a fleece structure. Giving it high warmth at a very low weight. The problem with using a merino as a mid layer is that you need it in a heavier weight and therefore you lose the benefit of the breathability of the peice. Making you sweat when active more and hold up to 30% more moisture than a 100% poly fleece. This affect compounds.

Long story short.. Synthetic all the way for mid layer. In my opinion merino is ideally used as a baselayer only and is best used in the lighter weights (150 gsm or lower).
 

jd1006

WKR
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
379
And it gets even more complicated when you consider that most hunting companies blend their merino with other fabrics for durability and to increase breathability. Wool offers a lot of benefits, especially if its more than 85% (seems like the stink threshold for me) in the way that it reduces odor, naturally regulates body temperature, and retains its warmth when wet. Thick merino makes sense for stationary hunting, if active, I think thick merino will get wet and stay wet for a long time.
 

Bump79

WKR
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Messages
925
Kuiu Peloton 200 has been a bomb proof mid layer for me the last 6 years. 150 weight merino then Peloton 200 and honestly it sees most of it's use as an exterior peice.
 

txtransplant

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
246
Location
Colorado
Interesting discussion here. For lower body, what are y’all using as midlayer? I have KUIU 145 Merino zip off, and had been planning to pick up FL Furnace zip off (also merino) for colder hunts. The only fleece zip offs I see are from KUIU, and they both say “mild” conditions. Interested to hear what folks are using.
 

mxgsfmdpx

WKR
Joined
Oct 22, 2019
Messages
4,183
Location
Central Arizona
Depends on what temps for me. If it’s warm I go lightweight merino and fleece only. If it’s cold I go midweight merino and down puffy. It’s it’s freezing I go midweight merino, fleece, down puffy.

This is for dry conditions. Add in wet weather clothes as needed.
 

Bump79

WKR
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Messages
925
Interesting discussion here. For lower body, what are y’all using as midlayer? I have KUIU 145 Merino zip off, and had been planning to pick up FL Furnace zip off (also merino) for colder hunts. The only fleece zip offs I see are from KUIU, and they both say “mild” conditions. Interested to hear what folks are using.
Lower body for me is harder than upper body. In an active hunt my legs generate way more heat when using the same weight as a top. In addition to that my pants typically have less breathability due to the desire for more durability and water resistance. I can't picture using over a 200 weight merino as a base bottom unless you are stationary. Even then a fleece will have more warmth per weight.

I wish there was an R value to convert these over. My gut tells me a 250 merino is equal to a Kuiu 97.

I've had luck with a very lightweight bottom, varying pant weight (must have zips) then adding either a down pant or rain shell over.
 

Bump79

WKR
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Messages
925
Also, I see a lot of hesitation on merino blend pieces. I think the 100% merino is the only way to go is a myth.

100% merino has it's place for lower activity, very low perspiration individuals, extremely dry climates or extended hunts when scent is key.

Now with a blend you actually can get some of the best of both worlds. You can get some of the benefits of each. I wrote some on this thread about this.

 

Drenalin

WKR
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
2,658
Interesting discussion here. For lower body, what are y’all using as midlayer? I have KUIU 145 Merino zip off, and had been planning to pick up FL Furnace zip off (also merino) for colder hunts. The only fleece zip offs I see are from KUIU, and they both say “mild” conditions. Interested to hear what folks are using.
This is the first year I've even considered wearing a midlayer on my lower body. The Kuiu 97 zip offs over a merino base, then my pants of course, worked pretty well and the 97s are extremely light to carry in the pack. That said, I also added a pair of the Kuiu Kenai pants late in the season and I much preferred those on the outside when I got stopped versus putting a midlayer on my lower half.
 

txtransplant

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
May 6, 2021
Messages
246
Location
Colorado
@Drenalin I had my eye on some FL Unpronounceable pants, and I’ve seen KUIU Kenai jacket, but somehow I missed the Kenai pant. Thanks!

How is the water resistance and durability? Pocket layout? Ease of putting on and taking off?
 

Bump79

WKR
Joined
Oct 5, 2020
Messages
925
@Drenalin I had my eye on some FL Unpronounceable pants, and I’ve seen KUIU Kenai jacket, but somehow I missed the Kenai pant. Thanks!

How is the water resistance and durability? Pocket layout? Ease of putting on and taking off?
Not to speak for @txtransplant but I've had both and each has it's perks. Neither is designed really for water resistance as they are active insulation and need to breathe. Both have a DWR treatment though.

The Kenai is more breathable and is extremely quiet. I found the durability to be lacking though.

The Uncompahgre is a little less breathable, louder but not terrible but more durable.
 
Last edited:

Drenalin

WKR
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
2,658
@Drenalin I had my eye on some FL Unpronounceable pants, and I’ve seen KUIU Kenai jacket, but somehow I missed the Kenai pant. Thanks!

How is the water resistance and durability? Pocket layout? Ease of putting on and taking off?
I haven't had them on in anything more than a drizzle, but that little bit of water beaded up on them pretty good. I wouldn't necessarily wear them in any significant rain, but they're ok in light moisture. They are very breathable, which also means they're pretty much a screen door for wind. They're soft, very quiet, and seem very delicate - I haven't damaged mine, but I don't wear them at all unless I'm stationary. No pockets, but you can access your pant pockets through the side zippers. Very easy to put on and take off; they're basically just like Kuiu's zip off base layers with full length zippers and velcro waist tabs.

The biggest draw for me on the Kenai stuff (besides warmth) is how quiet it is. Being a whitetail hunter, it's nice having insulation layers that don't swish like a sleeping bag (or worse). If noise isn't a concern, there are likely better options.
 

jd1006

WKR
Joined
Jul 21, 2021
Messages
379
I don’t like the Kenai outer layer fabric. It’s not durable. For puffy layers that will be on the outside, it’s hard to beat the Kifaru Lost Park Pants.
 
Top