Mil is SUPERIOR

[XLR]

@WeiserBucks commented on @Justin Crossley post about MOA vs Mils. It seems like the hunting community has favored MOA for a while now. Personally, I do not like to change things if they are not broken, but once I understood the wind formulas that can be utilized when shooting in mils, MOA was broken. I have posted a link below for the full article, but they mention a formula to get your gun value. What this does is shows you a quick formula for calculating wind calls on the fly. The article uses BC to calculate your rifle's wind number, but I simply use a ballistic calculator due to them being readily available and a little more accurate when making calculations. To do this you go into your ballistics calculator and set your range at 600 yards. Then you will set your wind angle at 270 and change the wind value until it shows a .6 correction at 600. Once you have done this you should have your rifle MPH.

For example, my 6 BRA is a 7 MPH rifle when pushing a 103 grain VT at 2850. So with that information I know that a 7mph wind at 400 yards is .4, 500 yards is .5, and 600 yards is a .6. With this information, I break it up in my head for 1/2 rifle number wind holds (sounds confusing I know) but what I mean is I can now do calculations for 3.5mph, 7 mph, 10.5mph, or 14 mph all very easily! In the field, you roll up onto your dream 220" mule deer at 500 yards. You do not have time to get your kestrel out. The wind is blowing so you predict the wind to be around 10mph. You know a 7mph would be a .5 wind hold so you multiply that by 1.5 for the 10 MPH and get a .75 wind hold. Now unless you are running a PR-2 reticle you do not have that hold so you quickly round to .7 or .8. At that distance, .1 mils is 1.8 inches so you are still well within the kill zone!

This method is quick and dirty but I have shot numerous PRS matches just estimating wind and using this formula and it works out very well! It also shows that squeezing out the last 100 FPS out of your 300 Weatherby has zero effect on "bucking the wind" no matter how much you would like to believe it!

I have tried breaking this down to be as simple as possible but if it seems a little confusing let me know and I can try to break it down a different way!

Wind Wizardry: BC Wind Formula for Long Range Shooting

Read: Wind Wizardry: BC Wind Formula for Long Range Shooting from Sean Murphy on November 25, 2019 for Recoil.

www.recoilweb.com

 

[WeiserBucks]

Great, now my brain will be in overdrive until I get up to speed on this. Thanks @XLR .

 

[XLR]

I was a little confused to begin with, but once you figure it out you will get rid of every MOA scope you have! There are a lot of different resources to get different explanations from!

 

[ddavis_1313]

@WeiserBucks commented on @Justin Crossley post about MOA vs Mils. It seems like the hunting community has favored MOA for a while now. Personally, I do not like to change things if they are not broken, but once I understood the wind formulas that can be utilized when shooting in mils, MOA was broken. I have posted a link below for the full article, but they mention a formula to get your gun value. What this does is shows you a quick formula for calculating wind calls on the fly. The article uses BC to calculate your rifle's wind number, but I simply use a ballistic calculator due to them being readily available and a little more accurate when making calculations. To do this you go into your ballistics calculator and set your range at 600 yards. Then you will set your wind angle at 270 and change the wind value until it shows a .6 correction at 600. Once you have done this you should have your rifle MPH.

For example, my 6 BRA is a 7 MPH rifle when pushing a 103 grain VT at 2850. So with that information I know that a 7mph wind at 400 yards is .4, 500 yards is .5, and 600 yards is a .6. With this information, I break it up in my head for 1/2 rifle number wind holds (sounds confusing I know) but what I mean is I can now do calculations for 3.5mph, 7 mph, 10.5mph, or 14 mph all very easily! In the field, you roll up onto your dream 220" mule deer at 500 yards. You do not have time to get your kestrel out. The wind is blowing so you predict the wind to be around 10mph. You know a 7mph would be a .5 wind hold so you multiply that by 1.5 for the 10 MPH and get a .75 wind hold. Now unless you are running a PR-2 reticle you do not have that hold so you quickly round to .7 or .8. At that distance, .1 mils is 1.8 inches so you are still well within the kill zone!

This method is quick and dirty but I have shot numerous PRS matches just estimating wind and using this formula and it works out very well! It also shows that squeezing out the last 100 FPS out of your 300 Weatherby has zero effect on "bucking the wind" no matter how much you would like to believe it!

I have tried breaking this down to be as simple as possible but if it seems a little confusing let me know and I can try to break it down a different way!

Wind Wizardry: BC Wind Formula for Long Range Shooting

Read: Wind Wizardry: BC Wind Formula for Long Range Shooting from Sean Murphy on November 25, 2019 for Recoil.

www.recoilweb.com

Curious what scope you are running on your long range hunting guns. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[WeiserBucks]

I shoot MIL, just need to get on board with the MPH concept.

 

[UpSideDown]

I also prefer MIL’s for simple drop calculations. On one of my rifles I know that my drop to 500yds is so close to the below numbers that I can simply use the following dope with a 100yd zero and land inside a reasonable spread:
100: 0
200: .5 (0.6 actual)
300: 1.5 (1.4 actual)
400: 2.5 (2.4 actual)
500: 3.5

This makes remembering dope very easy in the field, and places the stadia lines at a reasonable distance that plays well with how many cartridges drop inside hunting range. This might also be true of MOA calls, I haven’t run those numbers, but I like this about running MIL’s.

 

[XLR]

Curious what scope you are running on your long range hunting guns. Thanks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Between all of us, we do have a wide variety! The list includes Nightforce ATACR, Nightforce NX8, Leupold Mark 5, and a Burris RT25. They all have their ups and downs though!

 

[westonadkins]

Anyone use the "half way" calculation for determining wind holds in MOA that von Benedikt talks about here? Seems similar to the mil approach described by the OP. Meat of it starts 10:00 in.

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[XLR]

I will have to listen to this tomorrow!

 

[dirtytough]

I'm still trying to understand why its hard to do the same thing in MOA? My 6.5 is a 6 MPH gun with an MOA scope. For every hundred yards its 1 click to 800 yards. Simple. Just like if it was a MIL scope it would be an 8 MPH gun for every click. Seems simple either way?

 

[Wacko]

I agree with it's no harder with MOA. Both are a ruler, both can be used the same.

6.5 creed, 2700 fps, 8000', 147 eld-m, yada yada.....

2.5 mph wind equals .1 moa at 100 to 1 moa at 1000.....easy for me to do 5mph - just x2, 7.5 mph x3....

If you can hold .7 mils with a .5 mil reticle, you can hold .7 moa with a .5moa reticle.... .1 moa at 800 yards is less than an inch......

Lots of ways to "work the bracket"......

 

[MtnMuley]

I shoot MOA, but would need a MOA/MIL class well below the 101 level to get my brain on par with which was actually better and to even understand why I chose MOA over MIL.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I was MOA for many, many years. Switched to MILS about 3 years or so ago........very simple and easy to use. Can't imagine ever going back to moa.

Randy

 

[chaser_2332]

Will MOA work fine, absolutely…..is mils easier, absolutely

 

[Justin Crossley]

Will MOA work fine, absolutely…..is mils easier, absolutely

Why?

 

[mstei4]

Saying one is better than the other is like saying meters are better than feet for measuring someone’s height. They both do the exact same thing, they’re both angular measurements. It doesn’t matter which side of the yardstick you use, the end result is the same

 

[doc holiday13]

Saying one is better than the other is like saying meters are better than feet for measuring someone’s height. They both do the exact same thing, they’re both angular measurements. It doesn’t matter which side of the yardstick you use, the end result is the same

The metric system is actually superior.

 

[Bubblehide]

Saying one is better than the other is like saying meters are better than feet for measuring someone’s height. They both do the exact same thing, they’re both angular measurements. It doesn’t matter which side of the yardstick you use, the end result is the same

10ths is way easier and one is much less likely to make a mistake, so no, one does not always get the same end result, not the same end result with the same speed and ease.

 

[mstei4]

The metric system is actually superior.

For what exactly? As an engineer I’ll admit that the metric systems allows someone to be a bit lazy as they are doing some analysis, which I would argue is not a beneficial aspect, but it in no way guarantees or creates better results. That’s also why I qualified my statement with the height example, there is no difference between saying 6 feet tall or 1.8 meters, it’s all just a ruler when it comes down to it

 

[Idaho_Potato]

I didn't learn MOA or MIL. Zero at 200, then just figured out how many clicks are required every 50 yds from 300 to 500. Don't shoot further. If it's windy, get closer. KISS. I think my scope is MOA?