Missing Rifle Scope Features?

TK-421

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Oct 28, 2018
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856
The sub $1,000 market is completely saturated. Not interested in anything here, and it’s probably already been done at least once.

The $1,500(ish) price range is the best bang for you buck area currently, but there’s a lot of healthy competition from proven performers. A lightweight mid-power optic that compares to the AMG/Mk5/ATACR/etc. would probably do well.



Of course whatever is made needs to be durable with precise adjustments. For me, what I’m looking for in terms of "features", and probably not in this order

1) Low magnification of 4x with a corresponding FoV of 28-ft or greater.

2) upper magnification of 20x with a corresponding FoV of 6-ft or greater

3) FFP

4) 24oz - 26oz weight with tenebraex caps. In real life

5) Exposed low(ish) profile 10 mil/rev elevation turret. Adjustment spacing similar to a TT315M. Option for locking or non-locking. Not mushy, not sloppy. Second rev numerical references and second rev indicator. Total elevation adjustment in the 30 - 35 mil range, I'm looking for about 19 - 20 mils of working travel on a 20 MOA rail. Zerostop similar to Kahles/ZCO/etc. with about 0.4 or 0.5 mil dial under. Turret screws at the ~4:00 & 8:00 positions with arrow indicators on top of turret. Even better would be something like Tangent's tool-less adjustment.

6) Locking windage turret that is limited in rotation and/or has a second rev indicator & numerical references. Could have capped over top if really needed. Turret screws facing "up" and "rear" with arrow indicators on the top of the turret. Like above, better would be something like tangent's tool-less adjustment.

7) Option of left side windage with right side parallax (all scopes should option this now)

8) Copy Kahles' turret tool inside battery housing cap (every scope should have this) if you need tools.

9) Useable cross-over reticle. Larger outer posts that are ~0.5 to 0.75 mils wide and start 6mils out left, right, and above center, and 8 mils below center. 0.045 mil center thickness with 0.2 mil subtensions, with 0.1 mil between 4 & 5 mils. A 0.05 mil diameter center dot. Tree starting 2 mils below center with either lines or dots. No retarded ranging "features" or horus-style screen doors. Think slightly modified SKMR3 or MPCT2.

10) Forgiving eyebox. I don’t want to search around in non-perfect positions.

11) Generous DoF. I don't want to touch parallax outside of about 300 yards. Parallax down to about 20 or 25 yards preferred.

12) Not an ultra short and not a high erector ratio. Stick to a ~5x erector and maybe 14" (ish) length that allows proper mounting on a long action without an adjustable cheek piece

13) Low-to-mid 90's percent light transmission to the eye. I’m figuring about a 50mm objective or something that will provide similar performance to existing top level scopes in the 50mm range

14) Illuminated

15) Integrated mag ring fin/throw lever. Mag ring should rotate CCW from the shooters perspective. Also, no grittiness, overly stiff, overly loose.

16) no tunneling

17) no CA. High contrast & resolution.

18) I don't care about the price as long as it performs mechanically & optically, but realistically this would probably be a $2,500 - $3,500 optic.

Just spitballing 🤣
 

wind gypsy

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Dec 30, 2014
Messages
4,838
Here’s the recipe-

1). Mid power 3 or 4x in the low end, 12-16x on the high end.

2). 30mm, 42-45mm objective.

3). sub 24oz weight

4. Specifically designed and built to stay zeroed through impacts and drops.

5). Locking or zero stopped low pro elevation turret, capped windage designed and built for consistent and repeatable use

6). Front focal plane, Mil/Mil with a reticle that is specially designed for low and high power visibility. Cut to the chase and use the THLR reticle from @THLR

7. Large, forgiving eyebox, large FOV if possible.


Then take that scope and actually test them versus the “tests” that everyone does, before placing on the market

Doesn’t the Zeiss V4 check all these boxes?


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Red and Bolded is where you'll probably get a no answer. #6 is a definite no and folks would say #4 is as well.

My Opinion: Form laid out the recipe that is probably best for function and reliability to actually have the best functional tool (I'm not sold on THLR reticle yet). Unfortunately, I doubt the scope buying public will be educated enough to understand that. Fat chance the majority of people are going to understand that buying a scope with "better specs" I.E. lighter with a 6-8x magnification range is actually resulting in compromises in ability to hold zero/track correctly, forgiving site picture, depth of focus, and a finicky parallax.

What people "want" and what is actually realistic are two different things and for a lot of people, what they want and what would actually be best for them are also different. I want a 3-30x50, FFP, 20 ounces, 120 MOA of travel, zero stop, low profile elevation turret, capped windage for $600. I'm sure Tract could spec and build one to fit those parameters but I would bet the house on it being a $600 piece of shit.
 
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dreamingWest

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Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
336
Basically what Form said.

I'd like to see something like an SHV 2.0.

3-12x42 F1 (<24 oz)
4-16x50 F1 (<30 oz)
Low profile elevation turret w/ zero stop
Capped windage
Simple MIL reticle (similar to the MOAR)
 

Bubblehide

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May 13, 2015
Messages
2,278
What Form said.
There was another Tract thread in which I heard nothing but crickets to asking if your (Tract) scopes would hold zero to impacts. I even volunterred to test your scopes. I took the lack of ccx a response from Tract as a no they will not hold up to impacts (side, top and drops). Subsequently I moved on. However, if Tract does ever develope and market such scopes, I believe there would be significant interest.
 

CastIronSkillet

Junior Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2021
Messages
20
Just bring back the LRTSi a few ounces lighter, not too picky.

Also, I love large FOV scopes but I hate seeing the suppressor in the FOV...first world problems we have here.
 

Felix40

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Jul 27, 2015
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Location
New Mexico
Basically an SWFA 3-15 with zero stop, low pro elevation, capped windage, and a touch lighter.
 

Formidilosus

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Oct 22, 2014
Messages
2,164
I want to see THLR‘s reticle. I hope it’s bolder than most. We don’t need .2mil marks for 8mils across the center if we‘re using a tree reticle.


At close range use like a German #1.

sub 10 yards
25C995DF-D48E-4B3A-906D-724E0A3D11BA.jpeg



818 yards. Rock is 18’ish by 30’ish inches.

5x
23D652F9-2916-49B9-8EBA-0CA1899812D0.jpeg


10x
F433C399-55EE-42AC-9726-7BEE72EA40D7.jpeg



15x
921016B5-9F90-49C5-B409-A1F4B7E60922.jpeg


25x
3471C6FB-4160-4674-96D2-96D1342BFC8C.jpeg



797yards
39CF4DA3-CDA5-4913-9E81-653AC8AB2FC6.jpeg



Some of the reticle feature aren’t for game hunting, however they do not distract from normal use. The reticle deviates from how most reticle are designed because it was designed for how people are actually using and shooting them versus how they think they are. It is without a doubt the best FFP reticle on low power for close shooting, and from 6’ish and up magnification it offers .2 mil holds without cluttering the center where you actually shoot and spot impacts/splash.
 

260madman

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Dec 15, 2017
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Location
WI
At close range use like a German #1.

sub 10 yards
View attachment 336943


Some of the reticle feature aren’t for game hunting, however they do not distract from normal use. The reticle deviates from how most reticle are designed because it was designed for how people are actually using and shooting them versus how they think they are. It is without a doubt the best FFP reticle on low power for close shooting, and from 6’ish and up magnification it offers .2 mil holds without cluttering the center where you actually shoot and spot impacts/splash.
someone got it right. No complaining about the reticle being too small to use. If you can’t bracket an animal between the posts on this one just go ahead and quit shooting all together. Nothing too hard to see and the box will help draw your eye in without having it be thick and blocking your view like some other brands.


The only complaints we‘ll hear is about how thin the upper L-grid is in the pictures. It won’t be a problem because the pics don’t give enough depth of view. Those .2mil marks will be usable in the real world.

off to the Minox website.
 

MuleyFever

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Nov 7, 2012
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I just wish my 2.5-10 NXS was FFP and had an SWFA reticle

Why do you wish it was FFP? I dont see a purpose for a 10x scope to be FFP. If you need to use the reticle for measurement you are shooting far enough for it to be on 10x.

I do wish it was 12x or 14x.
 

Stu

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Joined
Dec 29, 2019
Messages
71
Why do you wish it was FFP? I dont see a purpose for a 10x scope to be FFP. If you need to use the reticle for measurement you are shooting far enough for it to be on 10x.

I do wish it was 12x or 14x.
The quick answer is: I want to use the scope at mag levels other than 10x, and I’m prioritizing retaining my wind holds and maintaining my sight picture through recoil over magnification. I do struggle to do this with a T3X tikka lite in 6.5CM on 10x, but I’m also a lightweight.

ultimately I agree with you and form. Something in the 4-16ish range, 42ish objective, 20-24 oz, FFP, and I’ll add parallax adjustment to my wish list. Non cluttered reticle, assuming robust dialing and zero retention. You’re right, this is more than a modified 2.5-10 NXS. Also, I never set it at 2.5 power.

My go-to scope from 0-600 yards is a 6X SWFA right now, but the scope Formidilosus described would be way more capable for my setup and typical use.
 

kipper09

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Dec 5, 2013
Messages
805
Location
West Virginia
After a lot of reading and research the closest thing to what most describe here is a huskemaw 4-16x42. It’s 21 ounces. Simple clean reticle with wind holds. It is sfp and from some things I read they retain zero very well. I know it doesn’t get much attention or love maybe because of their advertising but If the scope will retain zero and track it’s probably a solid choice. It does have adjustable parallax, but the only two things that are questionable are the weird .333 moa and I’m not sure I understand the zero stop they have.

I am Only basing this from specs and I have zero first hand experience with a huskemaw. On paper though it sure fits a lot of what many of us are looking for.


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Formidilosus

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Oct 22, 2014
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If you need to use the reticle for measurement you are shooting far enough for it to be on 10x.


Thats not true at all. In the couple of seasons I have shot, or been beside people that have needed to hold significant wind well inside the range that less than 10x is applicable. Antelope at 320 yards with more than a 1mil hold, elk at 427, deer at 606, antelope at 317, 270’ish and 250’ish, elk at 735, deer at 606, elk at 248, deer at 497, etc etc. None of those were on max power of the scope, all were below 10x. There is no downside to a well designed FFP at all powers, whereas there is no upside to a reticle that changes size with power when field shooting beyond close range.

As for the 2.5-10x NXS, the last several animals that I killed while using that scope at distance were all on less than 10x due to FOV, and is the reason that I don’t use that scope much anymore.
 

ItemB

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Nov 2, 2017
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After a lot of reading and research the closest thing to what most describe here is a huskemaw 4-16x42. It’s 21 ounces. Simple clean reticle with wind holds. It is sfp and from some things I read they retain zero very well. I know it doesn’t get much attention or love maybe because of their advertising but If the scope will retain zero and track it’s probably a solid choice. It does have adjustable parallax, but the only two things that are questionable are the weird .333 moa and I’m not sure I understand the zero stop they have.

I am Only basing this from specs and I have zero first hand experience with a huskemaw. On paper though it sure fits a lot of what many of us are looking for.


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Thanks for giving another option you are right, specs look good wish they had illuminated reticle. Never thought I needed or wanted illuminated but got a scope with firedot and now any new scope I buy I'm wanting illuminated reticle of some sorts.
 

MuleyFever

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Thats not true at all. In the couple of seasons I have shot, or been beside people that have needed to hold significant wind well inside the range that less than 10x is applicable. Antelope at 320 yards with more than a 1mil hold, elk at 427, deer at 606, antelope at 317, 270’ish and 250’ish, elk at 735, deer at 606, elk at 248, deer at 497, etc etc. None of those were on max power of the scope, all were below 10x. There is no downside to a well designed FFP at all powers, whereas there is no upside to a reticle that changes size with power when field shooting beyond close range.

As for the 2.5-10x NXS, the last several animals that I killed while using that scope at distance were all on less than 10x due to FOV, and is the reason that I don’t use that scope much anymore.

If you were using a 2.5-10x you could have easily set the scope to 10x on all of those animals and used the reticle, if you wanted. I guess we all hunt different. I had my NXS at 10x to kill a deer at about 80 yards this year. If I am moving its at 4-6x. If I have time at all I will turn it to 10x.
 
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