Mountain goat removal in Olympic National Park

[270quest]

I’m looking for a team to join - pm if interested. I’m pretty confident in my abilities as a hunter/backpacker to be just fine on this little adventure.

 

[NWRoger]

I will be putting in an application as soon as i get a group together.

anyone looking for a partner?

[mention]HoytHunter24 [/mention] and anyone else wanting an extra able body, I’d like to join a team. I’d be fine with being support, there is potential for some serious packing in, and out. I live just down in Vancouver Wa. 5three0,6nine1-60seven9


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mtnwrunner]

We have a group together also but you won't hear much after this-------they've got a fairly detailed contract about social media. I think it would be a great opportunity to be in the mountains.

Randy

 

[Fonkie]

I live on the OP & have been all over the Olympics. A couple things I’d like to point out for anyone thinking of applying for a nice easy stroll on park trails to plug countless pee licking goats that don’t move off the trail. Those goats have all been captured & relocated. The remaining populations are in some of the nastiest ground in the Olympics that have no trails. It’s gonna be steep,brushy & cliffy trying to get into the areas they reside. Retrieval will be tricky if not impossible at times. Oh & then there is the X factor here on the peninsula we call weather. Not only will it be miserable but it will make hunting nearly impossible in that country due to no visibility.

So there ya go, if that all sounds like your cup of tea, good luck in the application process & enjoy the Olympics. They are some of the most spectacular mountains I’ve been in.

 

[slvrslngr]

Fonkie nailed it. There might be a few easy ones killed but not many. The Olympics are no joke and will humble those who go in. That said, I hope the guys who go have a great adventure and kill some goats.

 

[AKMoose]

Well this makes me realize my odds of getting chosen as a local guy are much lower than I thought... Hearing nationwide buzz about this hunt. Ditto what the other guys who have been in the Olympics are saying. The team with many mountaineers and one hunter seem to be much more likely to get chosen in my mind

 

[Airohunter]

Well this makes me realize my odds of getting chosen as a local guy are much lower than I thought... Hearing nationwide buzz about this hunt. Ditto what the other guys who have been in the Olympics are saying. The team with many mountaineers and one hunter seem to be much more likely to get chosen in my mind

I would be curious how this plays out. Only those selected will know who they picked and what those teams look like. I would be bit surprised if they selected many hardcore climber types. I don't know that you'd want the liabilty of guys pushing the limits repelling to every animal they knock down, seems a bit over the top. I think a resume of Hunters with an extensive list of wilderness hunts including Goats and Sheep would carry the most weight.

 

[menhaden_man]

I would be curious how this plays out. Only those selected will know who they picked and what those teams look like. I would be bit surprised if they selected many hardcore climber types. I don't know that you'd want the liabilty of guys pushing the limits repelling to every animal they knock down, seems a bit over the top. I think a resume of Hunters with an extensive list of wilderness hunts including Goats and Sheep would carry the most weight.

I suspect folks with high integrity and ability to keep it clean will also play a big factor...

 

[hunterednate]

I've heard they put a lot of weight on the "Draw Your Spirit Animal and Explain What It Means To You" portion of the application. And the "Habitat Haiku" free response question at the end.

 

[Ltsheets]

Should be interesting...

 

[Jesse Jaymes]

I threw in with a group. I did not go over too much fine print, as I have been swamped at work. I do agree that most will think of this as the opportunity of a Lifetime and dream of multiple huge billies being had for "Free". I've been all around Mt Baker on the mainland side of W.WA. You're not doing 15 miles of anything off trail there in a week if it's below treeline, let alone day after day. Simply Impossible.

 

[Bunkin]

I put in with a group as well. I think it would be interesting to see the full amount of applicant groups once they are all in.

 

[JJBuck]

Don't forget about Squatch...he lives there too!

 

[Smokeslider]

Ryan Callahan just spoke about it in his podcast, presume they'll double the entries in the next day or 2.

 

[mardal2]

Thought a few of you might want to jump on this. Post from WDFW.

Mountain Goat Management - Removal - Olympic National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

WDFW WILDLIFE PROGRAM

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091


[email protected]

Olympic National Park is recruiting skilled volunteers to assist with the lethal removal of non-native mountain goats from the park. Selected volunteers will be required to travel on foot up to 15 miles a day through park wilderness, much of which will be off trail in predominantly steep and extremely challenging terrain.

• This program will occur from Sept. 9 - Oct. 17, 2020.
• In order to participate, volunteers must apply in groups of 3-6 people, and participate in one of three scheduled removal sessions.

Participants must:

• attend one day of training at the beginning of each designated removal session
• pass a background check
• meet requirements for physical fitness, orienteering, and experience recreating in extensive mountainous wilderness.

Groups may consist of field support personnel and expert marksmen; only those who pass a firearms proficiency test (which will be administered during each training) will be permitted to shoot goats in the park. Each group must have at least one person that passes the firearms proficiency test.

Volunteers must supply all their own required equipment and supplies, including suitable firearms and non-toxic ammunition.

Applications will be accepted until at least April 17. After that date, it will close as soon as 30 qualified groups apply, or on April 24 (whichever comes first).

For the past three years the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife has been a partner with Olympic National Park and many other organizations in this effort to return the ecosystem to a natural state. Thank you for considering participation in this important effort to remove nonnative mountain goats from the Olympic National Park.

Please visit nps.gov/olym/getinvolved/mountain-goat-management-removal.htm for more information.

That's some rugged country and weather can make things difficult but would be a good time!

 

[Fonkie]

Ryan Callahan just spoke about it in his podcast, presume they'll double the entries in the next day or 2.

What did Callahan have to say about it?

 

[ClangClang]

I think a resume of Hunters with an extensive list of wilderness hunts including Goats and Sheep would carry the most weight.

I'm much more of a climber and alpinist than a hunter. I spend most of my free time in the mountains and unwind shooting 3 gun and PRS. I looked over the documents for this hunt out of curiosity. I suspect they will only select teams who have a strong representation from both sides of the required skills, and my guess is that climbing skills will be more important. The park's first priority will be safety. If people die, it's gonna look real bad. Based on the unit topo maps, there is real technical terrain to deal with. If the team doesn't have multiple solid climbers who can lead through that terrain and protect it using modern climbing equipment, the whole team is going to get shut down, and the park has failed at their objective of sending teams in to cull the goats. Besides, if you look at the (hysterical) accuracy requirements (4 MOA at 200 yards, with only 62% repeatability), it doesn't take much of a hunter to hit those standards. Most people can hold better than that their very first time ever shooting a rifle assuming it's prone/benched. Although it would be interesting if the test was forced to be shot freestyle. That's actually moderately challenging.

You're not doing 15 miles of anything off trail there in a week if it's below treeline, let alone day after day. Simply Impossible.

Respectfully, I'm going to step out on a limb here and suggest that the average hunter truly has no concept of the level of fitness that modern alpinists possess. Case in point... To climb the Grand Teton in WY it is:

• From the trailhead to the lower saddle, over 7 miles, gaining a massive 6000' of elevation
• Hundreds of feet of vertical boulder scrambling up loose talus to reach the upper saddle
• Then the real climbing begins - a 1,000' tall near vertical cliff to finally reach the summit. Most parties rope up here and use cams, chocks, etc to protect this route. Large portions of this are often choked with ice/snow, requiring ice axe and crampons.

If you are a typical "fit" American, lift weights regularly, run a couple times per week, but need to hire a guide for the climbing experience, this is a full 2 day route. But the speed record on the Grand is 2 hours, 53 minutes. Granted, that's superhuman, but it's indicative of what's possible. Another climbing guy I loosely know climbed all ~55 of the "Fourteener" peaks in CO in 13 consecutive days. He averaged 30-40 miles and an insane 10,000-15,000 feet of elevation gain per day (borderline incomprehensible) for 10 days straight. And what's even crazier.... the record is 9 days.

 

[Bunkin]

I'm much more of a climber and alpinist than a hunter. I spend most of my free time in the mountains and unwind shooting 3 gun and PRS. I looked over the documents for this hunt out of curiosity. I suspect they will only select teams who have a strong representation from both sides of the required skills, and my guess is that climbing skills will be more important. The park's first priority will be safety. If people die, it's gonna look real bad. Based on the unit topo maps, there is real technical terrain to deal with. If the team doesn't have multiple solid climbers who can lead through that terrain and protect it using modern climbing equipment, the whole team is going to get shut down, and the park has failed at their objective of sending teams in to cull the goats. Besides, if you look at the (hysterical) accuracy requirements (4 MOA at 200 yards, with only 62% repeatability), it doesn't take much of a hunter to hit those standards. Most people can hold better than that their very first time ever shooting a rifle assuming it's prone/benched. Although it would be interesting if the test was forced to be shot freestyle. That's actually moderately challenging.

I agree. If you look at it from the NPS stand point, if they come out of this with a couple goats killed an no PR disaster its a win for them. Then they just run the same program next year with tweaks from what they learned from this year. If I were in their shoes dealing with all the seattlite yuppies I would want a team that seems to be more responsible and safe than a bunch of cold blooded killers that can/will shoot anything that moves. Moral integrity would be first on my list and then qualifications from there....

 

[Fonkie]

How exactly do they measure “moral integrity “ & how does that apply to an eradication hunt?

 

[Vek]

I'm much more of a climber and alpinist than a hunter. I spend most of my free time in the mountains and unwind shooting 3 gun and PRS. I looked over the documents for this hunt out of curiosity. I suspect they will only select teams who have a strong representation from both sides of the required skills, and my guess is that climbing skills will be more important. The park's first priority will be safety. If people die, it's gonna look real bad. Based on the unit topo maps, there is real technical terrain to deal with. If the team doesn't have multiple solid climbers who can lead through that terrain and protect it using modern climbing equipment, the whole team is going to get shut down, and the park has failed at their objective of sending teams in to cull the goats. Besides, if you look at the (hysterical) accuracy requirements (4 MOA at 200 yards, with only 62% repeatability), it doesn't take much of a hunter to hit those standards. Most people can hold better than that their very first time ever shooting a rifle assuming it's prone/benched. Although it would be interesting if the test was forced to be shot freestyle. That's actually moderately challenging.



Respectfully, I'm going to step out on a limb here and suggest that the average hunter truly has no concept of the level of fitness that modern alpinists possess. Case in point... To climb the Grand Teton in WY it is:

• From the trailhead to the lower saddle, over 7 miles, gaining a massive 6000' of elevation
• Hundreds of feet of vertical boulder scrambling up loose talus to reach the upper saddle
• Then the real climbing begins - a 1,000' tall near vertical cliff to finally reach the summit. Most parties rope up here and use cams, chocks, etc to protect this route. Large portions of this are often choked with ice/snow, requiring ice axe and crampons.

If you are a typical "fit" American, lift weights regularly, run a couple times per week, but need to hire a guide for the climbing experience, this is a full 2 day route. But the speed record on the Grand is 2 hours, 53 minutes. Granted, that's superhuman, but it's indicative of what's possible. Another climbing guy I loosely know climbed all ~55 of the "Fourteener" peaks in CO in 13 consecutive days. He averaged 30-40 miles and an insane 10,000-15,000 feet of elevation gain per day (borderline incomprehensible) for 10 days straight. And what's even crazier.... the record is 9 days.

Remember kids, alpinists get to pick their routes; hunters don't. Oly Pen and central cascades lower elevation devils clubbing and alder flossing is a whole nother kettle of fish compared to anything in the Rockies roughly south of I-90.

The mountain sprint/runners(Mount Marathon types), other mountain racers and elite alpinists...how much weight can they pack for miles on end? Can these guys move out at 3+mph flat or downhill under 100 lbs? If not, can they trot under 55lbs and average 9mph going there-back-there to keep up with the "fit" american humping 100lb or more at 3mph? I've seen quads on the sprint guys that look like they just hopped off an east german Olympic sprint cycle from the 80s, but I don't know how the balance of their skinny selves holds up under a heavy pack.

The alpinist wins the race to the animal, but does the "fit" fatty win the packout? Hypotheticals abound.

How does that translate to this job? With no meaningful salvage requirements, the alpinist wins, but how many alpinists will stomach a cull with no salvage? Different conversation there. I don't think any self respecting hunters are going to allow themselves to come out light if they find animals.

Regarding marksmanship, shots in an 8" circle at 200 yards will 1-shot-kill goats at that range and further, all day, every day. They need a standard that works, one that confirms readiness, not one which satisfies the delicate sensibilities of this generation of self-proclaimed snipers. This show is for lower bc monometals and herds, not solitary trophy animals and half mile snipers with bergers. The terrain is rough but wrinkly. Cliff bands, scrub alpine and rock fingers allow for potential close approach, with "longer" shots taken off of improvised prone rests, aka "hunting". And with no salvage requirement, there is no concern about irrecoverable animals. Nothing "hysterical" about the marksmanship requirement.