Need help for a new custom barrel for hunting: contours, rifling, materials, blank vs prefit, etc

Wapiti1

WKR
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I read it, thanks. Still most of the muzzlebrakes and silencers are threaded for 5/8, i think i will have to ask all these details to the barrel manufacturer. Now i just have to decide between Krieger and Bartlein. Krieger, with the lower taper of their barrels, seem to give more margin for muzzle threading.
This will be long, but there is some misinformation in this thread.

The barrel taper only matters at the length you want it cut. The Bartlein #3 or Kreiger #4 are almost identical contours, and are correct to thread 5/8-24 at a 22" finished barrel length. If you want 24", you'll need to bump up in contour one number, or go 9/16"-24 threads on the tapers I already mentioned. That is a weight tradeoff of about a pound to go up in contour and thread 5/8"-24 at 24". I would stick to 22" in a lighter contour to keep the rifle weight and balance correct. A suppressor is going to unbalance it anyway, so I would want to keep it more manageable.

Belling on a threaded barrel is rare. It isn't caused by the pressure from firing a cartridge. There isn't enough pressure at the muzzle to deform the barrel. That is a myth that unfortunately still exists.

There are two causes: stress from manufacturing, or the lapped taper wasn't cut off the end. Stress is from hammer forging or button pulling, and they didn't fully stress relieve the barrel at the end. When the muzzle threads are machined, the barrel relaxes to a different size as material is removed. None of this is a concern from good makers like Shilen, Douglas, IBI, Hart, etc. Barrels that are lapped (all cut rifled, and some button) have a short taper at the breech and muzzle induced by the lapping process. It can extend for a couple of inches, but the makers just say to cut off an inch. That cleans it up enough for it to not be an issue.

I have only seen "belling" on factory and cheap barrels (usually unknown make). Even then, they shot fine.

To answer your thread question, 1/2"-28 is the safe minimum on a .308 chrome moly barrel, but you'll need an adapter for suppressor use. On a stainless barrel 9/16"-24 is a safer minimum if the rifle will be shot in very low temperatures (below zero Fahrenheit).

Both manufacturers that you are looking at only make cut rifled barrels. And they make good ones. Flip a coin. If I was your gunsmith, I would tell you to pick the one that has the shorter lead time or is in stock for what you want.

Rifling type is debatable, and IMO, only worth considering if you shoot competition. 5R is supposed to engrave the bullet easier and create a better seal extending barrel life and trapping less fouling. It probably does, if everything else on the barrel is perfect. That said, I would put it at the bottom of the list of concerns, or not on the list at all.

Barrel steel? There isn't a better here unless you want easier maintenance, but coatings negate that to a great degree. Since you want a .308, both will last thousands of rounds.

Prefits are fine if the action is made for it and is square from the factory. Provided the gunsmith is good, you will get a better result with a custom fit barrel so a blank is better, IMO. Prefits are mass produced to fit every action tolerances. A gunsmith can work to near zero tolerance on your action. And they can correct any issues they may find. That said, choose your gunsmith with a lot of research. Not that prefits are bad in any way, but if you are splitting hairs, and in this case, you probably are, a custom fit barrel is slightly better.

Jeremy
 
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ssimo

ssimo

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
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This will be long, but there is some misinformation in this thread.

The barrel taper only matters at the length you want it cut. The Bartlein #3 or Kreiger #4 are almost identical contours, and are correct to thread 5/8-24 at a 22" finished barrel length. If you want 24", you'll need to bump up in contour one number, or go 9/16"-24 threads on the tapers I already mentioned. That is a weight tradeoff of about a pound to go up in contour and thread 5/8"-24 at 24". I would stick to 22" in a lighter contour to keep the rifle weight and balance correct. A suppressor is going to unbalance it anyway, so I would want to keep it more manageable.

Belling on a threaded barrel is rare. It isn't caused by the pressure from firing a cartridge. There isn't enough pressure at the muzzle to deform the barrel. That is a myth that unfortunately still exists.

There are two causes: stress from manufacturing, or the lapped taper wasn't cut off the end. Stress is from hammer forging or button pulling, and they didn't fully stress relieve the barrel at the end. When the muzzle threads are machined, the barrel relaxes to a different size as material is removed. None of this is a concern from good makers like Shilen, Douglas, IBI, Hart, etc. Barrels that are lapped (all cut rifled, and some button) have a short taper at the breech and muzzle induced by the lapping process. It can extend for a couple of inches, but the makers just say to cut off an inch. That cleans it up enough for it to not be an issue.

I have only seen "belling" on factory and cheap barrels (usually unknown make). Even then, they shot fine.

To answer your thread question, 1/2"-28 is the safe minimum on a .308 chrome moly barrel, but you'll need an adapter for suppressor use. On a stainless barrel 9/16"-24 is a safer minimum if the rifle will be shot in very low temperatures (below zero Fahrenheit).

Both manufacturers that you are looking at only make cut rifled barrels. And they make good ones. Flip a coin. If I was your gunsmith, I would tell you to pick the one that has the shorter lead time or is in stock for what you want.

Rifling type is debatable, and IMO, only worth considering if you shoot competition. 5R is supposed to engrave the bullet easier and create a better seal extending barrel life and trapping less fouling. It probably does, if everything else on the barrel is perfect. That said, I would put it at the bottom of the list of concerns, or not on the list at all.

Barrel steel? There isn't a better here unless you want easier maintenance, but coatings negate that to a great degree. Since you want a .308, both will last thousands of rounds.

Prefits are fine if the action is made for it and is square from the factory. Provided the gunsmith is good, you will get a better result with a custom fit barrel so a blank is better, IMO. Prefits are mass produced to fit every action tolerances. A gunsmith can work to near zero tolerance on your action. And they can correct any issues they may find. That said, choose your gunsmith with a lot of research. Not that prefits are bad in any way, but if you are splitting hairs, and in this case, you probably are, a custom fit barrel is slightly better.

Jeremy
Thanks Jeremy, amazing answer. I thought that another advantage of reducing barrel lenght from 24 to 22 inches was easier and safer muzzle threading. Cool, so a #3 bartlein or a #4 Krieger seem to be a good choice and of course I will ask to the barrel manifacturer if there is anything wrong with ny request. And I will also ask to the gunsmith.
As far as picking a good smith, i think it's difficult to go wrong with the two options i have. Again, one is Flavio Farè, the man who invented a great competition caliber and arguably the best trigger in the world, other than the fact that his rifles (made by him) won so many competitions. He is also a hunter and that is a plus. GAC rifles is one of the most famous custom rifle builder in the country and i have heard several positive feedback from him and i liked the telephonic interaction a lot. He produces custom rifles since decades and I have yet to read or hear a bad feedback. There is an article talking about CRAZY guaranteed tolerances on their builds so I assume they have good machinery and know how to use it.

Edit:
GAC builds tolerances for their proprietary custom actions (GAC action):
Headspace +/- 0,0007 inches
Match chamber concentricity with +/- 0.00039 inches
 
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ssimo

ssimo

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
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Messages
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I checked all the main options with sporter Bart and Krieger contours but i found out something weird.

BARTLEIN
#Sporter 2 .800 - .600 at 24 inch, only cromemoly 3.35 lbs taper per inch 0.0111
#sporter 2b .850-.630 at 24 inch, 3.6 lbs
#sporter 3 .870-.670 at 26 inch, 3.95 lbs
For 2b and 3 taper per inch 0.0122


KRIEGER
#2 sporter .800-.600 at 26 inch, 2.8 lbs
#3 sporter .830-.630 at 26 inch, 3 lbs
#4 sporter .870 .670 at 26 inch, 3.5 lbs

1) why Krieger barrels are reported to be lighter with same contour and even longer barrels?
2) how much will the weight change between unchambered and chambered?
3) are these weights considering unchambered or chambered barrels?
 

Wapiti1

WKR
Joined
Sep 18, 2017
Messages
3,573
Location
Indiana
I checked all the main options with sporter Bart and Krieger contours but i found out something weird.

BARTLEIN
#Sporter 2 .800 - .600 at 24 inch, only cromemoly 3.35 lbs taper per inch 0.0111
#sporter 2b .850-.630 at 24 inch, 3.6 lbs
#sporter 3 .870-.670 at 26 inch, 3.95 lbs
For 2b and 3 taper per inch 0.0122


KRIEGER
#2 sporter .800-.600 at 26 inch, 2.8 lbs
#3 sporter .830-.630 at 26 inch, 3 lbs
#4 sporter .870 .670 at 26 inch, 3.5 lbs

1) why Krieger barrels are reported to be lighter with same contour and even longer barrels?
2) how much will the weight change between unchambered and chambered?
3) are these weights considering unchambered or chambered barrels?
ssimo,

Barrel weights are variable with no standard for measurement. A #4 .308 Krieger could weight 3.5#, but the same barrel in .223 would weigh 3.8#. They give an average number. It's not very exact. They are as shipped weights to give you an idea. There are some online barrel weight calculators (Pac-Nor, McGowen) that can give you a better estimate of finished weight. But it's just an estimate.

Chambering alone (no threads, no trimming) will take off about 2-5 ounces. Depends on cartridge and bore size. I just did a stainless Shilen #3 7mm. It started at 3lb 11oz at 26". I cut it to 22", machined 5 flutes 16" long 1/4" wide 0.115" deep, chambered in 7mm Rem Mag, threaded for a Zermatt Origin, and threaded the muzzle 5/8-24. It came out at 2lb 6oz. Without flutes, it would be close to 3lbs or a little under.

Jeremy
 
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