Need opinions on 1000-2000 yard target gun using Hornady A-Tips

[686]

Background: I'm going to be doing some longer range target shooting. I've shot an NRL match with my 6.5 CM and I shoot regularly from 500 to 785 yards at my range with my 6.5CM and a factory 7 PRC. I reload for these as well as other calibers (300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby, 375 Weatherby, etc.). I have some time scheduled this summer at a 1000-2000 yard range, and I'd like to use that time as a springboard to boost my abilities/experience. At some point, I'd like to shoot the Nightforce ELR or similar ELR matches.

I need to figure out what rifle/cartridge to shoot. I think I'd like to shoot either the Hornady 190gr 7mm A Tip or the 250gr A Tip due to their ballistics approaching 2000 yards. I have a donor rifle to start the build with: Accuracy International Chassis, Stiller TAC 300 action, Jewel Trigger (currently chambered in 300 Win Mag, originally for the MK 248 Mod 1). I'd like the rifle to be heavy enough that I might be able to spot impacts, and I'll be shooting it suppressed. I don't really want to step up to 338, as the ballistics aren't any better, and I don't want to go all the way to 375 Chey Tac territory (all new rifle, new suppressor, $$$$ ammo).

I think I've narrowed down what I'd like to do to the following:

Option 1: Have a heavy and long (28-30"?) 7 PRC barrel cut for the Stiller action and try to work up a load getting as much velo/accuracy as I can from the 190 A-Tips. I have some RL-25, which Hornady shows will push the 190 to 2900fps using 68 grains in a 24" barrel. As an example of downrange velo: 190 A Tips are running at 1221 fps @ 1800 yards at my elevation when fired at 2900fps. Longer barrel might be able to get close to 3000fps. I already have the dies and powder and can spin barrels, just need the barrel.

Option 2: Have a heavy and long barreled action built for 300 Norma around the 250gr A Tip. This will cost a lot more as I'll have to have a new action along with the barrel. 250gr A Tips are running at 1332 fps @1800 yards with fired at 2800fps using 84.3gr of N570. I don't have any of the components for this (powder, dies, brass, etc.); so its a lot bigger job to execute. Is it worth the effort for the additional velo and energy (for splash)?

Option 3: Shoot one of my existing rifles with ELDM/ELDX bullets, and suffer the reduced downrange ballistics: my current 24" barrel 7 PRC hunting rifle will shoot 180 ELD-M's at 2900 fps, which will be travelling at 1118 fps @ 1800 yards. So "only" 100-200 fps slower than the other options, but getting slower in that critical area of 1600-2000 yards where I'd like to not be completely frustrated.

Any other thoughts/recommendations? Thanks to everyone who participates in this forum.

 

[Wrench]

I've taken the 225eldm to 2k with good luck. I'd personally run your 7prc. I am running 50moa base and rings to get into that area without holding over. It's a bit over 20 mils for me.

I don't shoot my edge much at the 2k....I'm trying to get it to 2 miles.....which is all It's gonna be able to give me.

 

[686]

[mention]Wrench [/mention] you bring up a good point. My existing 7 PRC has a factory pic rail epoxied to the action (I thinks it’s a 0 MOA). I could heat it up and pop it off and try to replace it with a 20 MOA rail, which I’d probably need.

This is also affecting scope choices I’m looking at for this build. Some of these ballistic options require over 20 mils of elevation dial up, which some scopes max out at; I was looking at some that go up to 30mils, but there are always trade offs.

 

[Pescetism]

Option 2* 28"-30" 300 PRC or 300 Sherman should get you close to 300 Norma without an action change. Still different dies, and brass but brass availability should be better/less expensive.

300 Win throated for 250 ATips might also be worth a look.

 

[T_Widdy]

These are what a 7 prc with 190 Berger at 3000 compared to a 300 Norma with 245 Berger at 2800 would have done today at the KRG. I’m probably building a 7 prc for next year.

A 20 moa base and 4-20 Atacr would be my choice.

7 prc


300 norma

 

[686]

[mention]T_Widdy [/mention] yeah those slippery 7’s are hard to beat. I did consider a wildcat like 7-300 PRC or 7-300 Norma to get more velo on those 190’s, but I don’t know if it’s worth the extra, rather significant, complication for those wildcats to gain ~100 fps at the muzzle and maybe ~70fps at 1800yds.

 

[Wrench]

You can run burris signature xtr rings and get 40moa in the rings. I'm running these with a 20moa base for a total of 60moa cant.

 

[T_Widdy]

[mention]T_Widdy [/mention] yeah those slippery 7’s are hard to beat. I did consider a wildcat like 7-300 PRC or 7-300 Norma to get more velo on those 190’s, but I don’t know if it’s worth the extra, rather significant, complication for those wildcats to gain ~100 fps at the muzzle and maybe ~70fps at 1800yds.

The gun really doesn’t matter, PRACTICE and mastering wind will get you the most impacts. I shot a 6.5 prc and saw around 90% of my hits/misses. There were only a few shots I couldn’t see where my bullet landed, a bigger bullet might have made a little more dust…. The 153 atip seemed to do pretty good out to 1900, the 2045 and 2375 targets my bullet was all over high and low. I think a 190 will do well.

 

[Castle Rock]

I would use your existing rifle with a 20-30 moa base and run two scopes, one in XTR rings with 30 or 40 moa inserts for long range, not worried if it won’t zero at 100

 

[Wrench]

My pard swings a 7-08ai at our range and is pretty hard on the 1805 gong. The 2200 is just a bit much for him.

 

[686]

I would use your existing rifle with a 20-30 moa base and run two scopes, one in XTR rings with 30 or 40 moa inserts for long range, not worried if it won’t zero at 100

Interesting thought. I zero at 200 or 300 normally; 100 is irrelevant, agreed.

 

[686]

[mention]Wrench [/mention] what 7mm projectile is he shooting?

 

[T_Widdy]

Interesting thought. I zero at 200 or 300 normally; 100 is irrelevant, agreed.

100yd zero is a must I feel. If you can’t get there just input an offset in your solver. But you’re going to want a zero that is not affected by environmentals

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I shot my Sako .308 on Friday using 168 ELDM hand loads at 1 mile.

36” plate (roughly 2 MOA) and was able to make impacts, including ending the session with 3 impacts in a row.

The cartridge choice isn’t nearly as important as other factors (as I’m sure you know).

 

[686]

100yd zero is a must I feel. If you can’t get there just input an offset in your solver. But you’re going to want a zero that is not affected by environmentals

I always check groups at 100 but I leave my longer range guns zeroed at 200 or 300. Point being, if the scope didn’t have enough elevation turn to quite zero at 100, I’m good checking groups that are high at 100 and I’ll catch the zero at 200 or 300.

 

[686]

[mention]mxgsfmdpx [/mention] nice work! 20 MOA base? How much elevation/holdover were you holding? Could you see the splashes through the scope?

 

[686]

Ok, you guys are talking me into the 7prc route. I ordered some 190gr A-Tips and some n570 to try along with the RL25. I’ll plan on shooting my existing rifle as a default option and will check scope base options, but I’m also going to call a few smiths about cutting me a long heavy 7prc barrel for the Stiller; maybe throated deeper so I can load the 190’s long and get a little more powder in the case. Would be a fun project, and a heavier rifle, less recoil and easier to spot splashes. But if the barrel doesn’t get here in time or whatever, I’ll be set up with my existing rifle.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Why limit yourself to a 24” barrel on an ELR specific rifle?

 

[686]

Why limit yourself to a 24” barrel on an ELR specific rifle?

Yeah, I agree, my current factory rifle has a 24” barrel and I’d like to get a custom in the 28-30” range. I was quoting the reloading manual data for 24” barrels because that’s what Hornady and Vihtavuori use in their published data. Hopefully I can get 20fps+ per inch for the barrel length beyond 24 inches.

 

[686]

The cartridge choice isn’t nearly as important as other factors (as I’m sure you know).

Just circling back on this, which is important and a theme of this thread. All of this caliber talk is a waste of time if I can’t operate the weapon system and can’t read wind. In years past, I wouldn’t have taken this on, as I wasn’t confident enough to know what I was doing. I’ve been largely self-taught, while un-learning a bunch of bad habits from my childhood. Last year I was able to take some lessons from an ex FBI instructor and it changed my life (like literally). My groups shrunk dramatically and I’m much more comfortable behind the rifle and can actually feel like I’m not wasting everybody’s time in this endeavor.

I’m shooting an NRL one day match this month, and I’m doing the range days at the 1000-2000 yard range in June. So, I have momentum on my side with my ability and future time set aside, and I want to put myself in the best position (within reason) with my rifle setup to be able to tune myself as much or more than tuning up the rifle when I have the 1000-2000 yard time. (E.g. obviously it would suck to run out of scope dialup/holdover before you got to 2000, etc.)