Need some help: Too slow then pressure

[JollyRoger]

Happy Easter everyone. Going to try to make this make sense the best I can. I’ve been reloading for a few months and up until recently things have been mostly great.

I recently decided to build an NRL rifle and start shooting matches. First one for me is coming up in May.

Here’s my rifle set up:
Tikka T3X action, Proof 22” Carbon barrel in 6.5 CM, LPM Mach S suppressor, KRG Bravo, NF 4-16

I wanted to shoot 140 ELD-M because they shot great in my AI AT and I’ve got a bunch of them. However, since I got a 22” barrel they’re too slow to make power factor. I need 2714fps and am getting between 2680 and 2715. Just barely shy. My load was Norma brass, 41.5gr of H4350, Fed 210 primer, seated about 0.020” off the lands.

So, I bought 1000 147gr ELD-M. I did a work up starting at 40gr and going to 41.8 (Hodgdon book max). Initially I saw no pressure with any of them so I chose 41.5 and 40.8gr. They both showed pressure, ejector marks and stiff bolt. The 41.5 had a few primers blow out so I stopped shooting those.
I dropped to 40.3 (Hornady max) and shot some of them…. Still ejector marks and stiff bolt lift.

Next I loaded some at 39.5 and some at 40. 39.5 was too slow for power factor. And 40 showed some pressure. Wtf.

Next I tried 143 ELD-M. I loaded some at 40.5, 41, and 41.5 (Book max for hornady). Same story. 40.5 was too slow, 41 showed pressure as did 41.5 along with 2 blown primers.

What could be the issue here? My initial load shot great, it’s just to slow for the power factor. In reality I should have thrown out the idea that this was a hunting rifle at all, called it a game rifle and bought the 24” and been fine with the 140s. My AI shoots those really well around 2750 ish.
Any and all help or advice is appreciated.


PS: I read the painless reloading thread (most of it) and it worked great for my first crack at reloading. But now I’m here with a match in a few weeks and either too slow or too much pressure with a few kernels of powder difference.

 

[T_Widdy]

Is this all virgin brass? If so you could be getting bolt thrust.

H4350 was to slow for my NRL rifle also, I switched to staball 6.5 and got good speed with no pressure but had higher es. Tried n555 and have almost the same charge and speed, no pressure and single digit es.

 

[Blurry1]

Have you tried other powders? Primers? Not to sound rude but it sounds like your committed to something that’s not working.

Also what cartridge?

 

[JollyRoger]

Is this all virgin brass? If so you could be getting bolt thrust.

H4350 was to slow for my NRL rifle also, I switched to staball 6.5 and got good speed with no pressure but had higher es. Tried n555 and have almost the same charge and speed, no pressure and single digit es.

This brass has been shot a few times, 2-4 times. All Norma that started out as factory ammo.

I may try different powder…. I was hoping H4350 would serve me well here but it’s definitely not working for this application.

 

[JollyRoger]

Have you tried other powders? Primers? Not to sound rude but it sounds like your committed to something that’s not working.

Also what cartridge?

It’s a 6.5 Creedmoor

So far I haven’t tried other powders. I originally bought 16lbs of H4350, and have been using Fed 210 primers but also recently dipped into my next batch of 210M

You’re right, I’ve been kind of married to this powder and primers cause I have so many. When I found that the 140s were slow it seemed like the next best option was a heavier bullet. Sounds like I might need to change a few things or shoot factory ammo

 

[JollyRoger]

Is this all virgin brass? If so you could be getting bolt thrust.

H4350 was to slow for my NRL rifle also, I switched to staball 6.5 and got good speed with no pressure but had higher es. Tried n555 and have almost the same charge and speed, no pressure and single digit es.

What bullet and barrel length were you using?

 

[ckleeves]

I would probably start with Lapua SRP brass. You can push it harder than Norma LRP by a bit. If you can find a lb of StaBall 6.5 to try it’s either gonna love it or hate it but it generates more fps then H4350. N555 is always worth a try too. I have had two different 22” 6.5 creed barrels and both ran around 2720 without pushing them hard with H4350,Lapua SRP and 140 eldms but every barrel is different.

 

[T_Widdy]

What bullet and barrel length were you using?

20” tikka ctr,

147 eldm with 42.5 n555, alpha lr primer brass. Coal of 2.875, about .075 jump. Avg 2615 fps

 

[JollyRoger]

Looks like I can find N555 and StaBall 6.5. And also Lapua SRP brass… but that means getting more primers too. I do realize my initial plan from the start was to shoot and learn with the few hundred pieces of Norma and eventually get into the better top tier stuff

I’m also reading up on carbon rings… I haven’t cleaned this barrel at all. Is that something that could cause this issue?

 

[T_Widdy]

Looks like I can find N555 and StaBall 6.5. And also Lapua SRP brass… but that means getting more primers too. I do realize my initial plan from the start was to shoot and learn with the few hundred pieces of Norma and eventually get into the better top tier stuff

I’m also reading up on carbon rings… I haven’t cleaned this barrel at all. Is that something that could cause this issue?

It could, creeds seem to be better about not forming a carbon ring though.

Try some factory ammo and see if it still has pressure.

Was your brass fired out of another barrel first or always this barrel?

 

[JollyRoger]

It could, creeds seem to be better about not forming a carbon ring though.

Try some factory ammo and see if it still has pressure.

Was your brass fired out of another barrel first or always this barrel?

I’ll try some factory ELD-M and maybe some FGMM with the Bergers.

One thing I did not do a great job of was keeping this brass separate. In factory form it was shot from my AI, and the second firing through the AI also… after that it’s all been shot through this rifle

 

[T_Widdy]

I’ll try some factory ELD-M and maybe some FGMM with the Bergers.

One thing I did not do a great job of was keeping this brass separate. In factory form it was shot from my AI, and the second firing through the AI also… after that it’s all been shot through this rifle

I would get new brass for this rifle, that could be your main problem.

Measure your .200 line from the case head, you might need to base size them, also how much bump do your sized cases have compared to the ones that came out with pressure signs.

 

[T_Widdy]

I’ll try some factory ELD-M and maybe some FGMM with the Bergers.

You could also try the Berger ammo, if it shoots good buy enough for a match and then you have lapua brass to reload after

 

[JollyRoger]

I would get new brass for this rifle, that could be your main problem.

Measure your .200 line from the case head, you might need to base size them, also how much bump do your sized cases have compared to the ones that came out with pressure signs.

I’ll measure to see how they compare between fired and post sizing. When I started I was bumping the shoulder way back but have since lightened up on it. I’ll get some exact measurements.

 

[JollyRoger]

You could also try the Berger ammo, if it shoots good buy enough for a match and then you have lapua brass to reload after

I’ll see what I can find.

Now that you mention it though… back in the day when Berger ammo was cheaper, I shot a ton of it out this rifle before rebarreling it. I’ve saved every piece of brass I shot so I do have some Lapua SRP and some LRP brass. I’ll see how much I have

 

[Blurry1]

I’ve been wanting to try staball 6.5 but as with everything it’s been rapidly jumping in price. I don’t have a reasonable amount of of experience with 6.5 cm but I’ve been breaking in my new 6.5 with superformance and seeing good results. Temp stability is my biggest concern with that powder.

 

[Moose83]

I'm gonna guess your Norma brass is soft. I always thought it was good brass until I blew 3 primers in one box of factory Norma .243 whitetail ammo. Was gonna use the brass to reload, but I went back to the boxes I'd previously fired and found nice shiny ejector marks on most of them. No hard bolt lift so I didn't catch it at the time. I posted my results on here and was informed by those in the know that Norma is dimensionally great but typically soft.

 

[Castle Rock]

Yep, crappy brass
My mates and I are running 147s and 42.5 of 4350 in Lapua brass with excellent case life

 

[Wrench]

Mic the case head and it'll tell you a story about the brass. How much jump are you giving the 147's?

I'd choose a 200 over a 210 if pressure was showing on my primers.

When you said you blew a primer, did it blow at the pin or edge? If at the edge.....punt right now.

 

[JollyRoger]

Mic the case head and it'll tell you a story about the brass. How much jump are you giving the 147's?

I'd choose a 200 over a 210 if pressure was showing on my primers.

When you said you blew a primer, did it blow at the pin or edge? If at the edge.....punt right now.

I’ll take some measurements tonight when I get home.

I gave the 147s 0.026” jump to the lands/ogive. Maybe they need to be seated deeper?