New Backcountry Rifle - 6.5 vs 7mm vs .308 monolithics

[bbell]

I’m definitely on the Form Train, but that is geared for lead core bullets. So if your looking at monolithics what are the best options? It appears very limited.

 

[brushape]

I’m definitely on the Form Train, but that is geared for lead core bullets. So if your looking at monolithics what are the best options? It appears very limited.

I’m from California and have switched to all copper bullets and the key for sure is pushing them as fast as possible. The bc on them all sucks ass so you don’t have that to keep the speed or energy going down range so keep that in mind. Creedmoors are terrible with the new laws in my opinion unless you plan on keeping things under 3-400


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[z987k]

The bc on them all sucks ass so you don’t have that to keep the speed or energy going down range so keep that in mind.

That's not true. There are high BC copper bullets.

Badlands has higher BC than any lead for the same weight.

LRX aren't great, but right in there with things like partitions, SST, etc.
Afterburners are up there or exceed the LRX.
Cutting edge and Lehigh have a line each that are better BC than the LRX.
I'm sure I'm forgetting one or two.

But yes the TTSX and Hammer, GMX, CX, E-tip & Fed Copper have horrific BC. That doesn't mean they all do.

 

[Macintosh]

Had to go check out badlands. Looks like some do have BC's comparable to lead--example their 140gr 6.5mm advertises a G1 BC of .670 compared to a 143gr ELDx at .625. That'll help, but regardless doesnt it make more sense with copper to look at impact velocity and compare max range before dropping below a threshold to expand reliably? (i.e. 2000fps is commonly used)
I believe people recommend LRX a lot because it is supposed to reliably expand at a lower velocity than many other solids, not so much because the BC is exceptionally high.

 

[GAHunterJim]

A 270 Win = a 6.5 PRC out to 500 yards, then the high BC bullet of the 6.5 has an advantage. If you like the 6.5 PRC then the 270 will do (I have two). Separately, the 7mm Rem Mag is hard to beat, I have two and really like them, great performance and manageable recoil. Available and affordable ammo makes a difference if you like to shoot and practice a lot.

 

[z987k]

Had to go check out badlands. Looks like some do have BC's comparable to lead--example their 140gr 6.5mm advertises a G1 BC of .670 compared to a 143gr ELDx at .625. That'll help, but regardless doesnt it make more sense with copper to look at impact velocity and compare max range before dropping below a threshold to expand reliably? (i.e. 2000fps is commonly used)
I believe people recommend LRX a lot because it is supposed to reliably expand at a lower velocity than many other solids, not so much because the BC is exceptionally high.

Yes, and that is the case for lead as well. I'd keep any copper over 2000fps. But with those high BC's thats 98% of people's hunting range - 500 and in.

 

[RussDXT]

Using a PH2 6.5 prc I took an elk with 127 lrx last year. The bull didn’t know it was hit. It worked and he tipped over but I was not sure I hit him due to no reaction. Cleaning him I saw the bullet did not open up. Because of this I switched to a 300wsm this year. In the meantime I switched to the Cayuga 122 solids for antelope in my prc. Took one and was impressed. I took my 6.5 prc as a backup for elk this year and ended up switching to it due to some issues with my 300. Took an elk with the 122 Cayuga and she maybe made it 20 yards.

After that shot a mule deer during second rifle and he made it maybe 10 yards.

My conclusion is the Cayugas are the real deal, when you hit an animal with it they know they have been hit, and cleaning them the damage is intense.

Moving forward I’m looking to pick up a element in 6.5 prc and mount a SWFA 3-9 on it.

 

[Macintosh]

Most of the low-bc copper in my strelok app is still over 2k fps at 500 yards. My 7mm08 with factory ttsx 120's is still over 2000fps at almost 500 yards and with nosler etip 140's it's good past 525, 30-06 150 ttsx's at 600 yds, 6.5mb federal copper 120's almost 600 yds, etc. I dont have a need for any of this past 500 yds so no experience with terminal performance there, just not sure that high-er BC than the above is really needed unless the 2k fps rule isnt the whole story or you are planning to shoot past those ranges?

 

[Macintosh]

Using a PH2 6.5 prc I took an elk with 127 lrx last year. The bull didn’t know it was hit. It worked and he tipped over but I was not sure I hit him due to no reaction. Cleaning him I saw the bullet did not open up. Because of this I switched to a 300wsm this year. In the meantime I switched to the Cayuga 122 solids for antelope in my prc. Took one and was impressed. I took my 6.5 prc as a backup for elk this year and ended up switching to it due to some issues with my 300. Took an elk with the 122 Cayuga and she maybe made it 20 yards.

After that shot a mule deer during second rifle and he made it maybe 10 yards.

My conclusion is the Cayugas are the real deal, when you hit an animal with it they know they have been hit, and cleaning them the damage is intense.

Moving forward I’m looking to pick up a element in 6.5 prc and mount a SWFA 3-9 on it.

What was the range and approx impact velocity on the elk?

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Drop is pretty irrelevant in the days of rangefinders.

Agree and other hand, recoil is completely relevant unless OP plans to run a can or brake. Every cartridge mentioned above and beyond the 6.5 PRC (excluding the .308) comes with incrementally more recoil. All things being equal, shooters will be more accurate with a gun that recoils less. This has been proven so many times there is no need to dig up statistics.

Also, if OP is reloading, Berger makes the 156 grain EOL Elite Hunter with a .679 G1 BC. Buddy and professional guide runs handloads with these in his PRC and they are both accurate beyond 500 and devastating on the vitals.

 

[Formidilosus]

just not sure that high-er BC than the above is really needed unless the 2k fps rule isnt the whole story or you are planning to shoot past those ranges?

It isn’t the whole story- the vast majority of monos at 2,000fps impact at 8 inches of penetration show that the nose has barely opened. Barely, as in usually not caliber size. When you see those recovered perfect mushroomed bullets, that is the maximum they ever got and only because there was enough resistance to stop them. Almost no one would be pleased with what they saw a mono doing as it exited a broadside animal at 2k. When using conventional monos, I want 2,300’ish FPS impact, and I still expect them to create very narrow wounds.

 

[Macintosh]

Well, there you go! That takes a lot of range off--turns 120 and 140gr 7-08's, 168gr 30-06 into +/- 300yd guns, 120gr 6.5mb into a 350yd gun and 150gr 30-06 into a 400yd gun. I'm sure some of the low drag copper bullets will help in any cartridge (someone else will need to run numbers, I'm streloked-out for today), but my guess is it takes a much bigger cartridge to really push a heavier bullet really fast to add really significantly to that range with a 2300fps lower limit. It would take something on the order of the badlands 185gr 7mm bullet going almost 3200fps to attain a 700yd range while staying above 2300fps, for instance.

 

[z987k]

Most of the low-bc copper in my strelok app is still over 2k fps at 500 yards. My 7mm08 with factory ttsx 120's is still over 2000fps at almost 500 yards and with nosler etip 140's it's good past 525, 30-06 150 ttsx's at 600 yds, 6.5mb federal copper 120's almost 600 yds, etc. I dont have a need for any of this past 500 yds so no experience with terminal performance there, just not sure that high-er BC than the above is really needed unless the 2k fps rule isnt the whole story or you are planning to shoot past those ranges?

You must be hunting a LOT higher than I do.

 

[Macintosh]

the range I do most of my shooting at is (in my most dramatic voice) seven HUNDRED and seventy nine feet above sea level. Above ranges based on the normal factory ammo, some chrono'd and some advertised velocity, advertised BC's, all velocity trued against actual dope at 400-600yds, and the resulting table strelok spits out--certainly a bit quick and dirty, but dont think it's that far off? The 30-06 is an 18" barrel, too.

 

[RussDXT]

What was the range and approx impact velocity on the elk?

I don’t like posting distances because I don’t want people to use them as validation to take a shot that haven’t practiced, but I can assure you my bullet was well placed and moving well above 2000 fps.

 

[Dobermann]

Drop is pretty irrelevant in the days of rangefinders.

And reliable scopes that dial ...

 

[Castle Rock]

If you want excellent performance out of monos just push them real fast
years ago I used to shoot 168 grain TTSXs at 3250 out of my 338 Winchester magnum and the performance on large game was nothing short of spectacular, the four petals would grenade off and the trunk of the bullet would go tumbling and bouncing around inside causing massive damage