New Bow (Hoyt RX4 vs 2006 Bowtech Allegiance??)

[treillw]

Current bow is a 2006 Bowtech Allegiance. I figure it's been ~15 years, my bow has to be a dog by now. I've been going to the local shops and shooting a bunch of bows over the past few weeks. I like the Hoyt RX4, PSE Carbon Air Stealth Mach 1, PSE Xpedite. I've shot Prime, Matthews, etc.

I put together a spreadsheet comparing a bunch of different bows - brace heights, axle to axle, etc, and it's kinda overwhelming to figure out how some of them will be different without putting a sight on them and shooting them 60 or 70 yards (more than the basic test fire you can do at a shop). So I put the Allegiance specs in the spreadsheet to give myself some sort of reference and was surprised that it fell right in with many of the others in terms of speed, etc.

So I figured I'll just shoot the bows I like through the chronograph and see for myself (435 grain arrow, 29" draw, bow maxed out):

• Allegiance - 274 fps
• RX4 Ultra - 285 fps
• RX4 Turbo - 299 fps

Obviously the Allegiance is still the lowest speed, but I had high hopes for the RX4 Ultra, as it is the "western tailored hunting bow". But for $1600, I feel like they can keep the extra 10 fps. Kind of disappointing, as I was looking for an excuse to buy a new bow! Am I missing anything? The Ultra might hold better than the allegiance. But I'm kinda shocked that there isn't more of a difference.

I feel like if I was to get another bow, I'd have to go for the TurboW (somebody should trademark that name) to make it worth it. 25 fps seems to be a better jump. Surprisingly I like the draw of the Turbo more than the Ultra. The Ultra pulls "really" hard initially and then tapers off until it abruptly dumps into the valley and makes the arrow jump off the rest. To me the Turbo feels like I'm pulling say a constant 60 pounds and it smoothly goes into the valley. I would expect it to be the opposite. The Turbo doesn't have any points in the draw cycle where the cam really takes off and it feels like the string is going to get ripped out of your hands. I was letting it down and pulling it back, as if I was running a cleaning rod into a gun barrel, and it just felt constant and good. Total opposite of my expectations. I even asked the salesman if the bow was maxed out.

So some questions:

• How much difference will there be in shooting gaining 10 fps?
• How much difference will there be in shooting gaining 25 fps?
• How hard is the Turbo going to be to shoot? I've never shot a "speed bow". I'd like to get into playing at 100 yards. I don't see myself ever shooting an elk over 60 yards, unless it's a follow up shot.
  • It's like I could shoot the Ultra to 100 yards with more stability, but it's not practical for hunting.
  • If I could only shoot the Turbo to 60 yards comfortably, that's probably my max range on an animal anyway.
• I'm sure this isn't an easy answer, but generally what is the rule of thumb for arrow weight and speed on elk?

That's enough drivel for now. Anyone care to offer some thoughts to help me sort things out?

Thanks!

 

[Don Qui Puncher]

I’ve sold a few bows that I shot for years that I liked to get the latest and greatest only to be disappointed. 274 is an excellent speed for tuning fixed heads and if your deciding to stay with that arrow weight I’d keep what you have, if your looking to get a new to you bow check archery talk many year old bows are half MSRP so it doesn’t hurt as bad and typically you can re sell for what you got it for or close to it. I had the defiant,defiant turbo RX1 ultra and I just sold an Rx3 I didn’t care for, I was chasing the new bow craze. I replaced the 1600$ RX3 with a 2013 elite E32 that I shoot better and like way more I picked up for 275 on AT with a QAD rest.

 

[Billy Goat]

In my opinion bow performance hasn't changed a lot in the past 7-8 maybe ten years. What has changed is how they are tuned. I think several companies have made strides to build a bow that is more easily adjusted and tuned.

Nothing wrong with getting a new bow if that's an itch you want to scratch, but I wouldn't get rid of what you got for a while. I haven't found the turbo's to be hard to shoot, just more difficult to tune. So you can pickup some speed and spend some time tuning it, or run a much heavier arrow than you currently are and have a bow that shoots similar to what you are used to.

No right or wrong answer. Just options. But unless you really want to try shooting a faster setup or a heavier arrow I don't see a reason to switch anything.

I like a faster arrow Incase I don't get the chance to range the yardage. So I like being around 290+ fps. Currently shooting around 450 grains @ 292 I think. But have killed several elk with sub 400 grains and over 300 fps, never had an issue.

A general consensus seems to be 450 grain arrow for elk.

 

[5MilesBack]

That 2006 Allegiance is an excellent bow........I have the 2006 Old Glory because of my draw length. But if I had a shorter draw I'd have the Allegiance. That was a great year for Bowtech. I shoot a PSE Freak as well these days and it's just a different feel than my Old Glory. The speed difference is negligible. Both bows will punch the bullseye at long range if I do my part.

 

[DAJtheHunter]

I was in your shoes last year. I had an 07 allegiance. I was ready for something new. Bought a used carbon defiant turbo. I really didn’t like shooting it. Bought a used RX1 ultra and love it.

The speed doesn’t matter. Enjoying the practice and shooting does. The ultra for me is so much fun to shoot that I have shot it more in the last year than I probably shot the allegiance in the last five years.

Good luck finding the one that fits you.

 

[treillw]

I was in your shoes last year. I had an 07 allegiance. I was ready for something new. Bought a used carbon defiant turbo. I really didn’t like shooting it. Bought a used RX1 ultra and love it.

The speed doesn’t matter. Enjoying the practice and shooting does. The ultra for me is so much fun to shoot that I have shot it more in the last year than I probably shot the allegiance in the last five years.

Good luck finding the one that fits you.

I would very much like to hear your thoughts on the three bows and how they differ - what do you like and dislike about each?

 

[BRTreedogs]

Speed doesn't matter, shoot what holds and feels best.
That being said dont upgrade your bow because age.
U upgraded to a less aggressive cam to get away from being. Jumpy

 

[jmez]

I'd steer clear of a turbo. Physics is working against you. They simply aren't as forgiving to shoot. You may not notice in the yard. In hunting situations where form, and shooting conditions may not be ideal, they are far less forgiving to shoot. I've been down that road a couple of times. Won't do it again.

Bow speeds haven't changed appreciably in 20 years. 350 is pretty much the shootable ceiling.



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[fatlander]

Traditional bows have gone largely unchanged for thousands of years. Your 2006 bowtech is more than capable. If you really want a new bow, I say go for it. If not, stay with the tried and true.


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[DAJtheHunter]

I would go back to the Allegiance if I could change two things about it. I bought the bow used in 2008. The draw length is a little short and it has " speed mods". If I could get it to match my draw length at 31" and had the "smooth mods" I would be more than happy to go back to hunting with it today.

The Carbon Defiant Turbo was too similar to the old bowtech. I liked the carbon riser since it kept your hand from freezing on cold days. I didnt like how hard it was to start the draw cycle. I was trying to shoot a turkey one day from the a permanent ground blind. Sitting in the chair I couldnt get the bow pulled back due to the weird body position and lack of room in the blind!

The RX1 Ultra is great for me. I like the smooth draw cycle and quiet shot. The carbon riser is nice for cold hunts.

I would not get the turbo for hunting unless you have a short draw length, <28".

Let me know if you have any other questions.

 

[coyote13]

I have an 06 Allegiance as well.
I've wanting to upgrade for awhile but nothing I have tried has been worth buying a new one, but I finally gave in...it was between the realm x & revolt x and the revolt x won, I had it about 3 weeks now and I love it. I didnt have a chance to compare speeds yet.
The other bow that really impressed me was the Prime Black 5, but I decided to stick Bowtech as that is all I have had since 2004 and I have never had any issue with any them.

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[treillw]

Any good resources out there to help me tune my allegiance?

 

[DAJtheHunter]

What kind of problems are you having?

here is Easton's tuning guide:

http://www.wvac.asn.au/docs/TuningGuideEaston.pdf

 

[RazAlGhoul]

Allengiance is one of the best bows they ever made! I prefer the 07/08 model tho, but just due to it going to 30.5" draw and side plates

 

[Beendare]

I went to a Spyder Turbo in 2013 from my 05 Allegiance due to a splintered limb....otherwise I would still be using it.

The performance difference is negligible.....and then there is a learning curve and accessories on a new bow.

 

[MattB]

While guys get hung up on the "on paper" differences in terms of speed, there have been a lot of positive developments over the years in terms of tunability, quietness, and shot feel that no bow in 2000's is going to match. Some guys don't care much for that sort of thing which is fine, but the differences exit.

Not to mention, bows have wear parts and don't last forever.

 

[treillw]

What kind of problems are you having?

here is Easton's tuning guide:

http://www.wvac.asn.au/docs/TuningGuideEaston.pdf

Thank you. Just I shot it through paper the other day and I'm pretty sure it was a little nock low and left. Kind of embarrassed to admit that I've never touched the tuning on it since I purchased it. The fact that it was still almost perfect after all this time might be another testament to the bow!

How much do you guys fuss with tuning bows on your own? I feel like I'm just going to screw it up if I try anything.

 

[treillw]

I need to get another string for the Allegiance if I keep it. Might just get a Black gold sight with a floating pin, a new string, call it good and see how I can shoot at long ranges with it.

 

[Beendare]

How much do you guys fuss with tuning bows on your own? I feel like I'm just going to screw it up if I try anything.

Tuning gives you; a more forgiving bow, quieter too, better accuracy, better arrow flight, more penetration...its shooting yourself in the foot if you don't tune.

 

[treillw]

Tuning gives you; a more forgiving bow, quieter too, better accuracy, better arrow flight, more penetration...its shooting yourself in the foot if you don't tune.

I just have no concept of how to do it.