Honestly, I don't know where it first came from but I've read it from several places. I've always heard 1500 lbs of energy for elk and 1000 lbs of energy for deer. I think it was based on ballistic testing to break through bones. But honestly I don't know where it first originally came from. I've read it from multiple sources and always followed it. I can believe that lower energy levels would still do the job. As I have stated, shot placement is the #1 most important key.
New Elk Gun
- Thread starter caseyrandel1
- Start date
FWIW, below is an excerpt from an article in Outdoor Life by Bill Kinney.
“What is thought to be the minimum foot-pounds of energy required to dispatch anything from whitetail deer to moose humanely and ethically?”
The most common figure thrown around when hunters discuss the energy required to ethically kill a whitetail is 1,000 ft.-lb. By this logic, at 1,000 ft.-lb. and above, you’re being ethical; your shot becomes questionable when the energy drops below this level. The problem here is that energy isn’t what kills an animal, making this line of reasoning nearly irrelevant.
What kills animals is the terminal ballistics of a projectile. This is the tissue disruption and damage to the vital circulatory, neurological, or respiratory system of the animal. As an example, it is more ethical to hit a whitetail with a 225-grain Barnes Expander bullet, which has a mere 600 ft.-lb. of energy at 75 yards, than with a 500-grain solid from a .470 Nitro Express, which has 4,000 ft.-lb. of energy at that range. The superior terminal ballistics of the Barnes bullet will dispatch the whitetail more swiftly than the solid bullet will.
So don’t get caught up with trying to achieve a particular level of impact energy with your hunting rounds. Instead, do some research into the terminal ballistics of the round you want to shoot and see whether the impact velocity at the ranges you plan to shoot at will give you the bullet performance you need."
“What is thought to be the minimum foot-pounds of energy required to dispatch anything from whitetail deer to moose humanely and ethically?”
The most common figure thrown around when hunters discuss the energy required to ethically kill a whitetail is 1,000 ft.-lb. By this logic, at 1,000 ft.-lb. and above, you’re being ethical; your shot becomes questionable when the energy drops below this level. The problem here is that energy isn’t what kills an animal, making this line of reasoning nearly irrelevant.
What kills animals is the terminal ballistics of a projectile. This is the tissue disruption and damage to the vital circulatory, neurological, or respiratory system of the animal. As an example, it is more ethical to hit a whitetail with a 225-grain Barnes Expander bullet, which has a mere 600 ft.-lb. of energy at 75 yards, than with a 500-grain solid from a .470 Nitro Express, which has 4,000 ft.-lb. of energy at that range. The superior terminal ballistics of the Barnes bullet will dispatch the whitetail more swiftly than the solid bullet will.
So don’t get caught up with trying to achieve a particular level of impact energy with your hunting rounds. Instead, do some research into the terminal ballistics of the round you want to shoot and see whether the impact velocity at the ranges you plan to shoot at will give you the bullet performance you need."
I 100% agree with the above explanation^^. Its all a little bit of semantics to an extent because energy comes from velocity and mass. The key is using a quality bullet that has the correct amount of expansion given the velocity. It all works together - so just looking at energy alone is a mistake, yet people need to understand its all related. Bullet type/quality, velocity, caliber, energy, etc. Someone I know with a ton of experience and knowledge has always told me that "you can kill an elk with a .22 if you know where to shoot it, are a good shot, and have good shot placement. Now that doesn't mean you should do it, but you can if you have the skill and knowledge."
Dark timber
FNG
From what I’ve seen in the field, 300-500ish yds is the Creedmoor’s wheelhouse with the 143gr eld-x. I’ve seen them basically blow up and have very little penetration within 100yds and create impressive, devastating wound channels beyond 400yds. Like others have said, bullet selection and shot placement are key. Myself, I’m not a big fan of small calibers for elk because not everything goes as planned and it’s nice to have a little oompf if you’re a little off.
CHWine
Lil-Rokslider
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2019
- Messages
- 222
Late to the party here. If you can't handle the recoil of a certain caliber, your done. I would put 7mm-08 is the class of 6.5 CM. Accurate with minimal recoil. Personally I would not elk hunt with 7mm-08 unless I was shooting under 200 yds. Love my 7 mag or .375 H&H for elk.
Sako76
WKR
My guides daughter shoots elk out to 400 yards with a 243, hit them right and they die. If you want a .30, get a 308. TC Venture WeatherShield to be specific and this is coming from a guy who owns several $5K custom rifles.
excaliber
WKR
Will the 6.5CM kill elk? Sure if the shooter can put the bullet in the right spot at the right time within proper range. It wouldn't be my choice that's for sure.
The guy mounting your scope could have stated it better but the 300 Win Mag is a much better caliber for Elk any way you look at it..
The guy mounting your scope could have stated it better but the 300 Win Mag is a much better caliber for Elk any way you look at it..
Idaho4x4Bronco
WKR
??????
PredatorSlayer
WKR
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2019
- Messages
- 2,242
6.5 CM is absolutely capable of taking down elk. Don’t listen to these guys who are telling you you need something bigger to kill elk. I have killed elk with 300 Rums, 325 wsms, 7mms etc. Those guns don’t kill elk any better than my son’s 6.5 CM or my 6.5 PRC. In fact after witnessing how well 6.5’s kill, I sold all my big magnum rifles. At the elevation we hunt elk, I am comfortable with a 700-800 yard shot with a 6.5 creedmoor. With my PRC, I am good to about 1100 yards.
Bullet passthroughs are over rated, but bullet selection is key. Worry less about ft lbs of energy and more about minimum velocity for bullet performance when determining the effective range of a cartridge.
I have seen more elk wounded by 300 and 338 mags by guys who can’t shoot them very well.
PredatorSlayer
WKR
- Joined
- Jul 20, 2019
- Messages
- 2,242
They are arbitrary numbers - its all about keeping the velocity at impact up high enough for your bullet to expand. Energy at impact is super over rated.
camelcluch
WKR
- Joined
- Mar 4, 2014
- Messages
- 2,059
It’s not my first choice but it will get it done.
people use a 243 but some how a 6.5 is too small.
people use a 243 but some how a 6.5 is too small.
Sako76
WKR
"TC Venture with Weathershield"
That's the next rifle I'm going to purchase exactly. Saving up $$ for it.
Why save up, just use your Communion money!
That's the next rifle I'm going to purchase exactly. Saving up $$ for it.
Why save up, just use your Communion money!
This is definitely one of those age old debates. At the end of the day, what matters most is being proficient with a legal caliber at ranges that YOU are comfortable shooting. There is always going to be a difference between the range rats (no insult intended at all) that are shooting hundreds or thousands of rounds throughout the year and those of us that shoot a few boxes of ammo to get ready for a trip. There will always be a proficiency gap and personal range limitations.
One also has to consider how comfortable/experienced you are with a rifle in general. In Iowa for example, the only thing we can shoot a high power at in this state is coyotes (unless you live in souther two tiers for special antlerless hunts). In contrast a hunter from other states that allow rifle hunting or a Western hunter (re: guide's daughter) has likely shot rifles their entire lives.
I was seriously considering a .25-06 for our trip this fall, because I am experienced with it for coyotes and know it is flat shooting and inherently accurate. It also has very minimal recoil. I've also read all kinds of stories about how popular they are out West for mulies and elk. However, the outfitter we chose has a 160 grain minimum regardless of caliber, so the .25s and 6.5s were out.
One also has to consider how comfortable/experienced you are with a rifle in general. In Iowa for example, the only thing we can shoot a high power at in this state is coyotes (unless you live in souther two tiers for special antlerless hunts). In contrast a hunter from other states that allow rifle hunting or a Western hunter (re: guide's daughter) has likely shot rifles their entire lives.
I was seriously considering a .25-06 for our trip this fall, because I am experienced with it for coyotes and know it is flat shooting and inherently accurate. It also has very minimal recoil. I've also read all kinds of stories about how popular they are out West for mulies and elk. However, the outfitter we chose has a 160 grain minimum regardless of caliber, so the .25s and 6.5s were out.
Idaho4x4Bronco
WKR
Smaller calibers are making a come back. I too am debating very hard right now on building a 270 up as my doit all Idaho rifle.
I just hope a 270 can kill an elk!!!!
I just hope a 270 can kill an elk!!!!
Cannonball
Lil-Rokslider
I recently got a .300win and .270win and have got to go shoot them to see which is going to get the nod for a cow hunt this winter. Im leaning to the .270 since its 2# lighter
Both are great choices, and that's a good problem to have!
jlaner0408
WKR
Just picked up a 270 wsm for my do-it-all Idaho gun- figure if I need something bigger I’m going to load some 151 hammers in my 20” 308 but I think the 270 wsm with some of the newer heavy bullets will take care of business on 99% of things (as long as they stabilize)
Idaho4x4Bronco
WKR
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