New rifle now i need a scope!!

[Craig4791]

So i have been without a rifle for a long time now since switching to bowhunting. I need some help picking a scope, I just picked up a Kimber Montana in .300 WSM last weekend.

I have a thousand bucks worth of safety rewards points from work that i can cash in for Cabela's gift cards so that's my budget basically and i need to buy it through Cabelas.

I plan on building a round for it and want to be able to shoot out to 600yds with accuracy good enough to hunt with. Primarily deer and elk but i will be bringing it with me in the future on sheep and goat hunts as a back up in case i can't stick them with archery gear! Not really sure i want to get into dialing to shoot at longer ranges but i'am open to it.

Right now i am looking at the Swaro Z3 with the ballistic turret and the Ziess HD5 with the RapidZ recticle. What are the advantages and disadvantages of both?

Since i will be building a round for it i need another scope to sight in with right? Then order the scope with my new ballistic data?

Weight is to be considered but ultimately i want something that's easy to shoot and reliable.

 

[hunting1]

Leupold VX3 3.5x10-40 CDS is my vote!

 

[Matt Cashell]

The Z3 with BRH reticle would work nicely at those ranges.

 

[Mckinnon]

Zeiss Conquest is on sale at cabelas right now.....

 

[Craig4791]

I know, so is the swaro line! So if I go with a recticle like the swaro BRH or the Zeiss rapidZ.

Do I need to build a round with another scope and then call in my order once I have the load data? Are they fixed? Or can they be adjusted during sight in?

 

[Matt Cashell]

I know, so is the swaro line! So if I go with a recticle like the swaro BRH or the Zeiss rapidZ.

Do I need to build a round with another scope and then call in my order once I have the load data? Are they fixed? Or can they be adjusted during sight in?

They work in different ways.

With the BRH, it is subtended in MILs at a certain power (12x on the 4-12X50 Z3). So you just run your numbers in MILs, and you have your drops.

With the Rapid Z, you use the online Zeiss Calculator to get the magnification where the reticle's subtensions closely match your load's drops.

I prefer the BRH system.

 

[Craig4791]

They work in different ways.

With the BRH, it is subtended in MILs at a certain power (12x on the 4-12X50 Z3). So you just run your numbers in MILs, and you have your drops.

With the Rapid Z, you use the online Zeiss Calculator to get the magnification where the reticle's subtensions closely match your load's drops.

I prefer the BRH system.

Thanks BB

So does your zero always stay the same at all different magnification levels on the BRH?

The BRH does sound better.

What are you thoughts on the swaro ballistic turret model? Is it repeatable?

 

[Matt Cashell]

Thanks BB

So does your zero always stay the same at all different magnification levels on the BRH?

The BRH does sound better.

What are you thoughts on the swaro ballistic turret model? Is it repeatable?

The center crosshair will maintain your base zero throughout the magnification range. The drop crosshairs will change with magnification changes because the reticle is in the second focal plane. The drop crosshairs will only be properly subtended at the calibrated magnification.

I tested the Z3's clicks, and found them to be 1/4 IPHY (as marked) and not 1/4MOA. Most people have found Swarovski's BT to be reliable, but if I were looking a turret scope, personally, I would get a legitimate tactical-style scope like a Vortex PST or HS LR.

Ballistic Reticles are at their best in the 600 yards and in scenarios, IMO.

 

[wyodan]

Craig,

I looked at both reticles, and ended up with a Zeiss, although I believe it was just to save a little money. It was only about $150. That said, I do like the Rapid Z. Pretty easy to read.

Bitterroot,

Could you explain MILs for me a little bit. I'm not sure how using this system works.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Milliradian (MIL) is an angular unit of measure, like minute-of-angle (MOA), but of different size.

It corresponds to 1/1000 of a radian. Since there are 6.283 radians in a full circle, one MIL then corresponds to one piece of a pie (circle) cut into 6283 pieces.

All that really doesn't matter to the shooter so much though. What is important is that 1 MIL corresponds to 10cm at 100 meters, 20cm at 200m, I meter at 1000m, etc.

So when you run your data in MILs, you can accurately use a mil-based system to compensate for drop.

So with a mil reticle system like the BRH, you run your data through a reliable ballistic calculator, and you can get matching zero ranges for your drop crosshairs. On the BRH the first drop-crosshair is 0.5 MILs down the vertical crosshair. Then there is a dot at 1 MIL, the next drop crosshair is at 1.5 MILs, the next dot at 2 MILs, the next crosshair at 2.5 MILs, etc. Make yourself a sticker with your load's drops that correspond to each hash for your load and the conditions you're in (field verified of course), and you are GTG.

 

[Yellowknife]

With the Rapid Z, you use the online Zeiss Calculator to get the magnification where the reticle's subtensions closely match your load's drops.

As a note on this. The RZ-600 is basically set to match a 0.500 BC bullet at 3000 fps when on max power. That matches very very closely to a .300 WSM shooting a good boattail 180 gr bullet. Although you can use the fancy calculator to calculate a "optimum power" for most lesser rounds, in the case of a .300 WSM or WM, it's pretty much a matter of crank it to max power. Pretty simple.

Yk

 

[Craig4791]

Thanks for the help guys.

I'm leaning towards the swaro 4x12x50 with the BRH recticle right now.

I've heard some talk about the crosshair size in regards to magnification can someone explain this and what option applies to the swaro Z3?

 

[Mckinnon]

Not to confuse this matter more Craig, but have looked at a vortex from Paul (Elknut)? My dad just put one on a rifle that he built, He got a VIPER PST 6-24x50 in MRAD, and really likes it. Got a great price and fast delivery too. I think you can get either FFP or SFP... I am also not sure how the glass compares to the swaro you're lookin at...

 

[Coyote Commander]

Not to confuse this matter more Craig, but have looked at a vortex from Paul (Elknut)? My dad just put one on a rifle that he built, He got a VIPER PST 6-24x50 in MRAD, and really likes it. Got a great price and fast delivery too. I think you can get either FFP or SFP... I am also not sure how the glass compares to the swaro you're lookin at...

If I had a long range rifle that I needed to glass up right now, the PST would be what I would get.

FINALLY had the opportunity to shoot one, for $750 (SFP model) they are NOT beat by anyone! Matching turrets and reticle, option of mil or moa, well designed reticles, zero stops, illumination (and damn good illumination system at that), features that you have to drop SERIOUS money on to get in another brand. The only thing it doesnt have that would be nice, is high speed turrets, but for less than a grand, I can live without.

 

[wk93]

Leupold VX3 with the cds gets my vote as well!

 

[big10hunter]

Leupold VX3 with the cds gets my vote as well!

X3. This is what I bought also. Have not put it on yet.

 

[rodney482]

Vortex PST

 

[Justin Crossley]

Swaro

 

[littlebuf]

vottex has some really nice stuff out right now. the more I look at there scopes the more I want one. I wouldn't dismiss vortex as a option.

 

[Craig4791]

Thanks for all the help guys! I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a Swaro 4x12x50 Z3 with the BRH recticle. Should be here next week!