Newbie Questions

Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
492
Just shot TAC San Antonio. It was a blast, and I did some of my most “daring” and the longest shots that I’d done.

I‘ve got questions, and at the moment this is the best medium I’ve got to ask on so I apologize in advance if these have been asked before.

-Hoyt Double XL 32” Draw 65#
-Black Eagle Outlaws 32” 300gr w/ 100gr field points

What do I gain by making the following changes:
- Going from 100gr to 125gr field points
- 65# to 70#
-Adjusting length of arrows from 32” down?

I noticed quite a few people who seemed to know a bit more than I do shooting handheld releases. From googling around I recognized Carter Wise Choices. I got to chit chat with John Dudley and look over the Nock2It and Silverback, and they seemed pretty slick. Would y’all recommend switching from a wrist release to a hand held?

My primary goal is not to be a better target archer, but a more capable and ethical hunter.

Any tips or input would be greatly appreciated
 

Rob5589

WKR
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
6,243
Location
N CA
Adding weight to the front will weaken the spine some. Adding draw weight will add to that issue. You can shorten the shaft to stiffen it which would increase the spine, maybe enough, maybe not. Adding tip weight will increase the FOC. Even with a 32" draw, you should be able to shorten your arrows a good bit from the full length they are now. You'll likely need to do some re-tuning as well.

Handheld vs wrist is preference mostly. A handheld can give you more adjustability depending on model. You can be plenty accurate with either. Try one out and see what you think.
 
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CB4

WKR
Joined
Oct 10, 2018
Messages
437
Location
Iowa
Congrats on having those long arms some of us would do anything to have. Rob5589 has some good points. With your specs you should be creating enough momentum to kill anything in North America. I would say to be more "ethical" would be just to become a better shot. As long as your arrow tunes and shoots well I wouldn't change anything with it. Unless you want to stick with the wrist release and think different arrow specs could tighten up groups. Change one and then tinker with the other and see if it helps.

To add to it. People will switch to a handheld release to be able to shoot a tension release. This can help if you have target panic and "punch the trigger" which is easier to do with a index finger release. However a thumb button hand held release can be punched just like a index finger release. The new backstrap from Dudley/Carter has some good reviews and was made so index shooters can shoot it like a back tension.
 
Joined
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Your arrows I suspect are 300 spine, not 300 grain. If you are going by what is written on them, that will be a spine, possibly with something like 8.9 or 9.3 gpi. That's the grains per inch the shaft weights. It's very likely you shaft weight is right around 300, just if you are going by what's written, that's not what it means.

Basically @Rob5589 covered the stuff about your arrow spine and the effects of changing point weight, draw weight, and shaft length. Only thing is backwards is that shortening the shaft will increase foc. The shorter the arrow is the easier it is to load the foc. However as long as you have enough that's all you really need. Hunting arrows I aim for around 10%.


The release is a personal choice. I know some damn good shots who use a wrist strap. Focus on form, releases don't make the shooter.
 

Kularrow

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Feb 26, 2021
Messages
274
I’m new too man, I really like this forum. The people here are great and answer anything with honesty and respect. With that said I had all the same questions you had and this is what I came up with:

1. I went with 100 grain just because of convenience and I didn’t see the need for a heavier tip for primarily shooting Whitetails.
2. I pull the heaviest I can without breaking down form or fatiguing too quickly.
3. I cut my arrows down 1 to 2 inches below the length of my draw.
4. I went with a thumb release right off the jump because all of my research turned to hand helds having tighter groups so I wanted to start/learn with that so I’d never have to switch from index to thumb.

I hope this helps.
 

Gorp2007

WKR
Joined
Dec 4, 2016
Messages
930
Location
Southern Nevada
A handheld back tension release (Silverback) has helped me work through some bad target panic. I'm still not Levi Morgan, but I'm also not flinching arrows off the target anymore. If I could do it all over again, I'd start out with a hinge or a back tension release to build better mechanics from the start.
 
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awildswanger
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
492
Your arrows I suspect are 300 spine, not 300 grain. If you are going by what is written on them, that will be a spine, possibly with something like 8.9 or 9.3 gpi. That's the grains per inch the shaft weights. It's very likely you shaft weight is right around 300, just if you are going by what's written, that's not what it means.

Basically @Rob5589 covered the stuff about your arrow spine and the effects of changing point weight, draw weight, and shaft length. Only thing is backwards is that shortening the shaft will increase foc. The shorter the arrow is the easier it is to load the foc. However as long as you have enough that's all you really need. Hunting arrows I aim for around 10%.


The release is a personal choice. I know some damn good shots who use a wrist strap. Focus on form, releases don't make the shooter.
That is correct, 300 spine 100gr
 

Rob5589

WKR
Joined
Sep 6, 2014
Messages
6,243
Location
N CA
Your arrows I suspect are 300 spine, not 300 grain. If you are going by what is written on them, that will be a spine, possibly with something like 8.9 or 9.3 gpi. That's the grains per inch the shaft weights. It's very likely you shaft weight is right around 300, just if you are going by what's written, that's not what it means.

Basically @Rob5589 covered the stuff about your arrow spine and the effects of changing point weight, draw weight, and shaft length. Only thing is backwards is that shortening the shaft will increase foc. The shorter the arrow is the easier it is to load the foc. However as long as you have enough that's all you really need. Hunting arrows I aim for around 10%.


The release is a personal choice. I know some damn good shots who use a wrist strap. Focus on form, releases don't make the shooter.
Yep, had it backwards, thanks.
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2019
Messages
2,231
Location
Missouri
What do I gain by making the following changes:
- Going from 100gr to 125gr field points
- 65# to 70#
-Adjusting length of arrows from 32” down?
100 to 125 gr points/heads: You would gain some FOC, a little momentum, a tiny amount of kinetic energy, and possibly some cutting diameter depending on broadhead design. You would lose a small amount of arrow speed.

65# to 70#: You would probably gain around 12-15 fps. At your draw length though you have speed to spare and there's no need to push your physical limits to get to a higher draw weight. Hunting shots are often taken from awkward positions and/or after a physically taxing day afield, so hunting with a draw weight somewhat below your maximum capability is wise.

Shortening arrows: You would gain a little FOC and make your arrows marginally less susceptible to wind drift. I see no downside to shooting as short an arrow as possible. Depending on your rest and front-end arrow configuration, you can probably trim off at least 1-2".

As mentioned above, all of these potential changes affect the dynamic spine of your arrow. Increasing point weight and draw weight weaken dynamic spine, and shortening the arrow stiffens it. That said, 300 spine should still be about right unless you add more point weight.
 
Joined
Jul 27, 2017
Messages
691
Just shot TAC San Antonio. It was a blast, and I did some of my most “daring” and the longest shots that I’d done.

I‘ve got questions, and at the moment this is the best medium I’ve got to ask on so I apologize in advance if these have been asked before.

-Hoyt Double XL 32” Draw 65#
-Black Eagle Outlaws 32” 300gr w/ 100gr field points

What do I gain by making the following changes:
- Going from 100gr to 125gr field points
- 65# to 70#
-Adjusting length of arrows from 32” down?

I noticed quite a few people who seemed to know a bit more than I do shooting handheld releases. From googling around I recognized Carter Wise Choices. I got to chit chat with John Dudley and look over the Nock2It and Silverback, and they seemed pretty slick. Would y’all recommend switching from a wrist release to a hand held?

My primary goal is not to be a better target archer, but a more capable and ethical hunter.

Any tips or input would be greatly appreciated
I personally like the hand held release. I shoot a tension release, I found it was just too hard to not punch the trigger when hunting. I have only killed a deer and a turkey with the back tension so far but man was it nice to actually settle my pin an aim for once and not just karate chop the trigger as soon as my pin got to the vitals. I would get your self a quality fixed blade broadhead and learn how to shoot those and tune your bow and arrow and go hunt
 

Zac

WKR
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
2,214
Location
UT
As stated above I would also encourage a tension activated type release. The Silverback would work fine for this. Get rid of your wrist strap while using the tension activated. This style of release takes alot of practice and you don't want to be tempted to go back to a trigger. I would use the tension release for a solid year before I would change to anything else.
 

Greenmachine_1

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Jul 13, 2019
Messages
166
I'll throw myself in the handheld category. I personally like a hinge. I shoot a Dudley 2 Smooth most of the time. I also have a B3 Ghost that is different enough that I will use when I want to change things a bit. Also probably going to get a B3 Ranger for its wrist strap.

Everyone else covered the bow and arrow changes really well, but I will add, by changing 1 thing, you will likely be adjusting many things. So you would be better trying a few setups to see what you like most and then adjust everything accordingly to that setup and stop going down the rabbit hole. It's a deep hole to figure out that it all works pretty good...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
 
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awildswanger
Joined
Jan 29, 2020
Messages
492
I'll throw myself in the handheld category. I personally like a hinge. I shoot a Dudley 2 Smooth most of the time. I also have a B3 Ghost that is different enough that I will use when I want to change things a bit. Also probably going to get a B3 Ranger for its wrist strap.

Everyone else covered the bow and arrow changes really well, but I will add, by changing 1 thing, you will likely be adjusting many things. So you would be better trying a few setups to see what you like most and then adjust everything accordingly to that setup and stop going down the rabbit hole. It's a deep hole to figure out that it all works pretty good...

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
That’s exactly my thinking. I know for certain that I can go out and smack WT and hogs with my setup with no changes, but idk if there is anything worth improving for me to do when after I get it paper and broadhead tuned I’m basically hunt ready?
 

djames

FNG
Joined
Apr 25, 2021
Messages
64
Location
Andrews, TX
Sounds like all of your questions have been covered well. Shoot everyday and experiment with arrow setups and releases to find what works best for you.
 
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