Next dog

[Muleyczy]

I’m not sure how or what you like to hunt and what you prioritize in a dog. I have hunted and field trial shooting dog pointers for some years now. I head up to Utah and Idaho and chukar hunt on occasion. The dogs can really bomb in that country, I think it’s as good as it gets to have a dog find and hold birds 5-600 yards away hike your ass off and put birds up. Great anticipation and truly a great dance between dog, bird and hunter. The more I have done this the more I realize my friends and I are the minority. Must don’t want and can’t handle a dog with that much go. They would rather have a dog within shotgun range the entire time that way they can shoot at whatever gets up which is completely fine. For them retrieving and close working are priorities. Get a dog out of the type of dogs that you want. There are some AA field trial gsps that can flat move out and there are some that are 50 yard dogs tops and everything in between. Do your research on what you want, there are plenty of good breeders catering to every style. You can have a dog ground shipped anywhere in the country for around 400 bucks. Considering your gonna live with and feed the dog for the next 10-15 years the cost isn’t much.

Cody, appreciate the info and get what your saying. My priority is chuckar and huns with the anticipation to start traveling out to other states as I get more into it. My current dog hunts, I'm guessing, 200+ yards out which Im totally fine with and have realized I need to just let her go rather than try and keep her close. I'm not looking for a dog "today" but hopeful to pick up another in 2020/2021 and want to research, locate and get on list for a quality line.

Thanks for your feedback

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[Muleyczy]

Not slamming GSP at all, but the drahthaar breed testing and strict breeding standards are turning out very solid dogs. Getting on the list for a 2020 pup now. If a guy wanted a GSP, I'd take a close look at that DK link in this thread. I think they have the same type of breed standards as the drahthaars.

30338, have you hunted behind a dog from these lines?

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[codym]

Chukar and Huns I would stick with field trial bred gun dog shooting dogs. Matt Smith is in Nevada and has a dog named Jax that has won every thing. I would try to get a puppy out of his stuff or some guys out of Pocatello/Idaho falls area. If your interested I will PM you numbers. But again these stub tails aren’t for the faint of heart. Great family dogs but will go through hell and back again to point birds.

 

[30338]

30338, have you hunted behind a dog from these lines?

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Which lines are those Muley? The GSP, DK or Drahthaar? Again not slamming GSP and if good lines, they'll be great I am sure. I have not hunted behind those DK lines either but know several guys having great luck with DK dogs. Bottom line I guess just research carefully and betting a guy gets a great pup.

As I get older, I enjoy strolling along with my bird dog more and more. Can't wait for fall and really nice to have one that is finally 3 years old and dialed in.

Dos Perros makes a good point on heat tolerance. I don't think drahts have as much as some other dogs. I hunt mostly from mid Oct to end of January. Cold is never an issue, anything over 50 and mine starts heating up fast. So if chukar hunting involves warmer temps, that would be a strike against my black drahthaar.

 

[hoff1ck]

This is a good post. With shorthairs especially you can have one in any flavor you want. Big slow boot licking types and smaller faster rangy types. Ones that can retrieve you ducks and ones that wouldn't overheat in September. I would bet a Nevada hunter could save some boot leather if they were willing to let the dog cover the miles for them. Talk to the folks killing the birds around you, they'll tell you what they like, what's working, and who is going to have litters on the ground. I personally wouldn't buy a dog from east of the Mississippi if I were you unless I really knew the line. Good feet are important, heat tolerance is important.

There are plenty of fine dogs east of the Mississippi, so if this is truly a search for the best/most fitting litter I wouldn't put a ton of stock into location. Scott Townsend out of Crosswind Kennels in Maybee MI has a line of shorthairs that continue to produce on the test circuit and the grouse woods. I'm not a shorthair guy myself, but don't rule out the Great Lakes region in your search. Lots of good grouse dogs around here and they'll hunt whatever you put them on.

 

[Kootenay Hunter]

My advice, meet the dog before you take it home, you're taking an expensive risk buying a dog unseen, unless they have a good return policy.

A well bred dog doesn't translate into a perfect turn key hunting dog. Instinct and genetics are important, but the effort you put into training is paramount.

 

[TwoHeartedLoon]

I'll second Crosswind Kennel. Scott's dogs are thought out, bred to run - but have the where-with-all to be trained to particular ranges. I have a female out of Crosswind Microchip x Crosswind Skeeter that ranges 50-125 in grouse cover and as far as I let her in the field.

Notable dogs of his are Crosswind Truckin' Fritz and Crosswind Microchip. If you look through the placings on the Michigan NSTRA page, or even the National NSTRA page, you'll see several of his dogs pop up, as well as his line in general. Scott's a good dude, he'll give it you straight as to whether he thinks his dogs would be a good fit for what you're looking for.

 

[Dos Perros]

There are plenty of fine dogs east of the Mississippi, so if this is truly a search for the best/most fitting litter I wouldn't put a ton of stock into location. Scott Townsend out of Crosswind Kennels in Maybee MI has a line of shorthairs that continue to produce on the test circuit and the grouse woods. I'm not a shorthair guy myself, but don't rule out the Great Lakes region in your search. Lots of good grouse dogs around here and they'll hunt whatever you put them on.

If the OP is going to hunt open country chukar and huns it makes worlds more sense to get a breeding that is winning western wild bird trials. Maybe in shorthairs those are the same dogs, I don’t know, I only know bird dogs, and coverdog pointers and setters don’t fare near as well out west because they don’t range as big. I also think the feet and heat tolerance play into it too.

In a big big world like shorthairs, you gotta make your first cut somewhere. To me geography is the most obvious first cut.

 

[codym]

If the OP is going to hunt open country chukar and huns it makes worlds more sense to get a breeding that is winning western wild bird trials. Maybe in shorthairs those are the same dogs, I don’t know, I only know bird dogs, and coverdog pointers and setters don’t fare near as well out west because they don’t range as big. I also think the feet and heat tolerance play into it too.

In a big big world like shorthairs, you gotta make your first cut somewhere. To me geography is the most obvious first cut.

It's so funny you say this. You know how many people that get a dog from the east or out of a breed because someone somewhere told them it was a great idea or the best dog ever yadyadyad. Then they show up out west where they live and plan to hunt and are constantly trying to make a dog into something it wasn't bred to be. Either direction, guys buying dogs out of AA stock that are constantly hacking and shocking a dog they have no bussiness owning because they like the idea of owning a son or daughter of a natl ch or the guy that buys a 50 yard insert breed here.... and hunts with hard nosed well worn sure enough western bird dogs and there pup backs all day or busts birds causing nothing but frustration. Buy a dog that is bred for what YOU want to do with it. Rule of thumb you can pull a string in but you can't push it out, applies to bird dogs too.

 

[SoCalBoyDontKnow]

Chippewa German Shorthair Pointers; Corvallis, Oregon

Chippewa German Shorthair Pointers; A dog for the field

chippewa-gsp.com

I have heard a lot of good things about these people. I think the owner. Is a genetics professor at OSU

That's just down the street from me! haha

 

[hoff1ck]

If the OP is going to hunt open country chukar and huns it makes worlds more sense to get a breeding that is winning western wild bird trials. Maybe in shorthairs those are the same dogs, I don’t know, I only know bird dogs, and coverdog pointers and setters don’t fare near as well out west because they don’t range as big. I also think the feet and heat tolerance play into it too.

In a big big world like shorthairs, you gotta make your first cut somewhere. To me geography is the most obvious first cut.

We’re getting a bit off track from the OP at this point obviously so I’ll keep it short, but that simply isn’t true. The top guys from MI all run dogs in Montana, the Dakotas and also the southern states for quail. The dogs perform well. If you require a dog with more range and better heat tolerance, then by all means find a line that has the characteristics to do that. My point is any well bred hunting dog can handle almost whatever species from a pup depending on the wild birds they’re exposed to and how they’re trained. Contrary to popular belief there isn’t such thing as a chukar bred dog or a grouse bred dog, etc. To say a dog from east of the Mississippi couldn’t handle the heat or range of the west is misleading.

 

[Muleyczy]

Chukar and Huns I would stick with field trial bred gun dog shooting dogs. Matt Smith is in Nevada and has a dog named Jax that has won every thing. I would try to get a puppy out of his stuff or some guys out of Pocatello/Idaho falls area. If your interested I will PM you numbers. But again these stub tails aren’t for the faint of heart. Great family dogs but will go through hell and back again to point birds.

Cody, if you wouldn’t mind PM me his number I’d appreciate it.

 

[Muleyczy]

Which lines are those Muley? The GSP, DK or Drahthaar? Again not slamming GSP and if good lines, they'll be great I am sure. I have not hunted behind those DK lines either but know several guys having great luck with DK dogs. Bottom line I guess just research carefully and betting a guy gets a great pup.

As I get older, I enjoy strolling along with my bird dog more and more. Can't wait for fall and really nice to have one that is finally 3 years old and dialed in.

Dos Perros makes a good point on heat tolerance. I don't think drahts have as much as some other dogs. I hunt mostly from mid Oct to end of January. Cold is never an issue, anything over 50 and mine starts heating up fast. So if chukar hunting involves warmer temps, that would be a strike against my black drahthaar.

30338, I was asking about the DK lines but you answered it.

 

[Dos Perros]

We’re getting a bit off track from the OP at this point obviously so I’ll keep it short, but that simply isn’t true. The top guys from MI all run dogs in Montana, the Dakotas and also the southern states for quail. The dogs perform well. If you require a dog with more range and better heat tolerance, then by all means find a line that has the characteristics to do that. My point is any well bred hunting dog can handle almost whatever species from a pup depending on the wild birds they’re exposed to and how they’re trained. Contrary to popular belief there isn’t such thing as a chukar bred dog or a grouse bred dog, etc. To say a dog from east of the Mississippi couldn’t handle the heat or range of the west is misleading.

Nowhere have I said they can't do that. I've just said they won't be the best at it. As I mentioned with bird dogs, the ones winning the eastern coverdog trials are not the ones winning the western wild bird trials. They are two different niches demanding different skillsets to excel.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if one wants a good chukar dog one should buy a pup from a litter of good chukar hunters.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that one should see multiple dogs run in the terrain they intend to hunt. Flying east to watch dogs run there isn't a corollary. It's also impractical.

 

[hoff1ck]

Nowhere have I said they can't do that. I've just said they won't be the best at it. As I mentioned with bird dogs, the ones winning the eastern coverdog trials are not the ones winning the western wild bird trials. They are two different niches demanding different skillsets to excel.

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that if one wants a good chukar dog one should buy a pup from a litter of good chukar hunters.

I also don't think it's unreasonable to say that one should see multiple dogs run in the terrain they intend to hunt. Flying east to watch dogs run there isn't a corollary. It's also impractical.

That is my point, dogs from the East CAN perform with dogs from the west in those arenas, and certainly vice versa. Maybe you haven't said they can't handle it, but you have alluded to the fact they're almost certainly going to be inferior because the parents don't consistently run the west. There are trainers here in MI I would put against anyone in the western arena because as a baseline their lines are just that good. Anyways, there are multiple schools of thought when it comes to bird dogs and were from different ones. Multiple ways to skin a cat.

To the OP, good luck with your search and enjoy the new pup when the time comes.

 

[codym]

I don’t know if I ever posted this here or not if I did I apologize. Here’s a video we made a few years ago just messing around, we didn’t know what we were doing. Josh owns the upland obsession brand and has lots more hun/chukar and sage grouse videos on his page. Check them out. I will PM you a list of numbers here shortly.

 

[Matt W.]

My first hunting dog was a GSP. I screwed up in all ways on that one.. Breeder was a show breeder and not a hunter and I should have known better, it all fell apart from there. Love the breed, but she was a hyper high strung ball of fur.. Took a long time before I got another dog. I was living in AK at the time so I wanted a longer haired dog, Draths I saw were intense, I mean hardcore hunters. I wanted a pet and a hunter, somehow got connected with Scott Haugen, and his Pudelpointers impressed the hell out of me. So we got a Pudelpointer.

IMHO Hunting dogs, regardless of breed, need to be carefully bred. A good trainer can make an ok dog work for you, but I have been so impressed with the natural ability evident in well bred dogs. (Watched a few NAVHDA events) Makes up for my lack of skills! : )

A great read on the topic that will help you in your research is this book by Bob Ferris. If you have Kindle Unlimited its free!

Breeding & Training Versatile Hunting Dogs: Farris, Bob: 9781985413382: Amazon.com: Gateway

Breeding & Training Versatile Hunting Dogs [Farris, Bob] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Breeding & Training Versatile Hunting Dogs

amzn.to

 

[30338]

30338, I was asking about the DK lines but you answered it.

Muley, Helping a guy on July 13th finish training his DK that is 4 years old now for VGP test. If the dog looks pretty good, I can pass on the kennel info when I am done. If any interest in a drahthaar I know several good kennels.

 

[Muleyczy]

Muley, Helping a guy on July 13th finish training his DK that is 4 years old now for VGP test. If the dog looks pretty good, I can pass on the kennel info when I am done. If any interest in a drahthaar I know several good kennels.

If you wouldn’t mind passing DK kennel on that would be great and wouldn’t be against a drahthaar, especially if they are as good as I’ve heard. Thanks

 

[NEhunter]

wouldn’t be against a drahthaar, especially if they are as good as I’ve heard. Thanks

They are. They’re a serious dog for a serious hunter. Beware, if you or your wife have cats, you won’t lol.....




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