No refund if 23 changes to no nonresidents

[Primal215]

I’m talking with an outfitter that will not refund the deposit if unit 23 changes rules for nonresident caribou hunters so we can’t hunt it, what are your feelings on that would you still pay the reputable outfitter and hope for the best and also do y’all think that proposal on 23 and 26 will happen and lock us out?

 

[VenaticOppidan]

So me and my crew just purchased trip insurance for next years hunt in case the they try and succeed to shut the units down again. I think it was something like 260, covers multiple contingencies and regulation changes roughly 7% to guarantee not fitting with an outfitter/bush pilot.

Honestly, I’m not particularly worried about next year. I think after what i heard listening to the meeting if they want a serious shot of shutting down the units to caribou they are gonna have to have multiple years data to show a clear trend, which they currently do not have.


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[MichaelO]

no refund on deposit or have you paid in full and they say no refund?

there is a difference, deposit is money gone but if you paid in full and they refuse refund that’s unreasonable

 

[Primal215]

So me and my crew just purchased trip insurance for next years hunt in case the they try and succeed to shut the units down again. I think it was something like 260, covers multiple contingencies and regulation changes roughly 7% to guarantee not fitting with an outfitter/bush pilot.

Honestly, I’m not particularly worried about next year. I think after what i heard listening to the meeting if they want a serious shot of shutting down the units to caribou they are gonna have to have multiple years data to show a clear trend, which they currently do not have.


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What trip insurance did you go with? $260 is very reasonable.

 

[Primal215]

no refund on deposit or have you paid in full and they say no refund?

there is a difference, deposit is money gone but if you paid in full and they refuse refund that’s unreasonable

It’s the $2k deposit

 

[VenaticOppidan]

What trip insurance did you go with? $260 is very reasonable.

Pm sent


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[wapitibob]

Sounds like Shockey.

Hell no I wouldn't sign on with them, are you nuts?

 

[buzzy]

Seems pretty unreasonable for an outfitter to not refund a deposit or apply it towards another hunt if the dang state closes the unit. Outfitters who do that shit should be called out on these forums so others stay away from them. Plenty of outfitters who will do the “right” thing.

 

[UpNorth89]

I don't think they deserve to get any nonresident business if they won't return your deposit due to the state closing hunting to nonresidents in that area. Pretty shady imo.

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[VernAK]

I hadn't heard that the State of Alaska is considering closing 23 & 26 to nonresident caribou hunters. It sounds more like something the Feds would do.

 

[bmrfish]

Last time the Fed subsistence board pulled this crap and left us high and dry, Golden Eagle refunded our deposit in full. Stand up outfit. I wouldn’t sign on with someone who would not.


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[rayporter]

good gosh!
first disease and now laws killing hunts and stealing your money.

 

[VernAK]

Last time the Fed subsistence board pulled this crap and left us high and dry, Golden Eagle refunded our deposit in full. Stand up outfit. I wouldn’t sign on with someone who would not.


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^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^

 

[william schmaltz]

To be fair, if the fed. sub. rules were put back in place, you can still hunt it. It just changes how and where you can hunt. It doesn't "lock you out."

I guess I'll put myself in the business owners' shoes. They're operating in a fairly hostile village with high operating costs and now have to deal with a potential closure every couple of years. What would you do as a business owner? Demand for the hunt currently outpaces supply. So option 1 is they can just book clients willing to adjust their trip and come hunt caribou no matter what. Plenty of those folks around. Option 2 is to operate in complete limbo not knowing year to year if you will have any income and give full refunds based on how the political climate is changing the rules. And when the rules change, you may only have a months notice and it could be closed for 2 years or 10.

How do you propose they go about their lives to dance around that type of uncertainty? Raise prices and nonrefundable down payments to cover years where they may have empty books? Shut down business completely because the risk and stress is no longer worth it?

I can understand full refunds a few years ago because that time it really came out of nowhere. Now potential closure is kinda baked into the cake as risk and uncertainty almost annually moving forward. That uncertainty and risk needs to be shared by both parties to some extent IMO.

I don't think they deserve to get any nonresident business if they won't return your deposit due to the state closing hunting to nonresidents in that area. Pretty shady imo.

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You need to read up on the issue at hand.

 

[TodOz]

I'm planning a hunt with GE now. Given the language in the contract and the current political environment, I don't expect a refund. I've asked (today) if the deposit can be used for a different hunt should the unit get closed. If they agree to do that I'll be happy. I don't think I could ask for anything more. They're actively urging you to understand the risk associated with booking right now and they have to operate a business.

 

[buzzy]

To be fair, if the fed. sub. rules were put back in place, you can still hunt it. It just changes how and where you can hunt. It doesn't "lock you out."

I guess I'll put myself in the business owners' shoes. They're operating in a fairly hostile village with high operating costs and now have to deal with a potential closure every couple of years. What would you do as a business owner? Demand for the hunt currently outpaces supply. So option 1 is they can just book clients willing to adjust their trip and come hunt caribou no matter what. Plenty of those folks around. Option 2 is to operate in complete limbo not knowing year to year if you will have any income and give full refunds based on how the political climate is changing the rules. And when the rules change, you may only have a months notice and it could be closed for 2 years or 10.

How do you propose they go about their lives to dance around that type of uncertainty? Raise prices and nonrefundable down payments to cover years where they may have empty books? Shut down business completely because the risk and stress is no longer worth it?

I can understand full refunds a few years ago because that time it really came out of nowhere. Now potential closure is kinda baked into the cake as risk and uncertainty almost annually moving forward. That uncertainty and risk needs to be shared by both parties to some extent IMO.

You need to read up on the issue at hand.

Get out of your business or state it up front that deposits are not refundable if the state or feds close down the unit. Any outfitter who won’t work out a solution, such as rolling your deposit over to a different hunt or refunding money, and doesn’t have this specifically stated in their contract should be put out of business. It really is that simple.

 

[buzzy]

I'm planning a hunt with GE now. Given the language in the contract and the current political environment, I don't expect a refund. I've asked (today) if the deposit can be used for a different hunt should the unit get closed. If they agree to do that I'll be happy. I don't think I could ask for anything more. They're actively urging you to understand the risk associated with booking right now and they have to operate a business.

This is how it should be done. As a hunter you either accept that risk or not. But not having this language in the contract then it’s BS for the business to not refund the deposit or roll it towards a different hunt.

 

[LongWayAround]

A buddy and I are in for next year. Uncertainty and all... We plan to make the most out of the hand we are dealt.

 

[ddavis_1313]

My wife and I are doing a fly in hunt out of kotz next year. Our outfitter isn’t worried and has a back up plan if they do shut it down. He hunted when they shut it down last time and had success. Has to do with high water marks in n rivers and a few other things. But either way, I’m not worried. We will still get it done. One way or another.


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[trapperJ]

My wife and I are doing a fly in hunt out of kotz next year. Our outfitter isn’t worried and has a back up plan if they do shut it down. He hunted when they shut it down last time and had success. Has to do with high water marks in n rivers and a few other things. But either way, I’m not worried. We will still get it done. One way or another.


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This guy has the right attitude!

Hopefully it won't come to that but unfortunately as strong as the science is to NOT close 23/26A the board can vote their" feelings" and dismiss scientific input from the Fed land mangers and the State.