Nock Tear Low

Brandon Pattison

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I moved my loop up. I moved my rest down. Nothing. At point blank I get about a 1/2" tear. My timing couldnt be better. At 10' it is a bullet hole. My broadheads and field points have verticle impact differences accordingly.

NOT happy.
 

J-Daddy

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Feb 27, 2012
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So it'll shoot bullet holes at 10' through paper...I'd forget about it and just broadhead tune the bow and go hunt with it. People put way to much stock in paper tuning.
 

wapitibob

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My initial response would be that the timing actually could be better and that's why your getting a low tear that won't go away. Internet forum "timing rules" don't usually apply to everyone. You need to time your cams to your hand position, aka "creep tuning" or equivalent.
That said, I haven't shot thru paper for about 30 years now. It works great if you have no idea where to initially set your rest and nock prior to actually tuning, or to confirm those settings, which is what most guys use paper for.

If a guy gets bullets thru paper then creep tunes and group tunes at 60, that 1/2" tear is close to where you'll end up anyway, if not more.
 
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Brandon Pattison

Brandon Pattison

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aefcfe1b-5662-8730.jpg

20 yards
Group of 3 is field points.
Singles are broadheads.

aefcfe1b-56a6-d2ec.jpg


aefcfe1b-56bd-e546.jpg


aefcfe1b-56cf-fc4e.jpg
 

JNDEER

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I had the same problems (hoyt carbon, QAD rest, almost same set up as you). Couldn't figure it out and relized that it was in my form and release the caused the difference. I was dropping my arm or peaking and that resulted in the groups to show a difference.

Worse case seeing as how the Left and Right is good for your grouping size (arrow is flying straight). Dial in your bow for BH and go hunt!

Also - those are some crazy broad heads. Maybe try something that is known to fly with FP (g5, shuttle's, Slicks) and see if that fixes your problem. Even the Pro's who get their bow dialed in cannot shoot many of the bigger fixed BH on the market without re-adjusting things.
 
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Brandon Pattison

Brandon Pattison

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My initial response would be that the timing actually could be better and that's why your getting a low tear that won't go away. Internet forum "timing rules" don't usually apply to everyone. You need to time your cams to your hand position, aka "creep tuning" or equivalent.
That said, I haven't shot thru paper for about 30 years now. It works great if you have no idea where to initially set your rest and nock prior to actually tuning, or to confirm those settings, which is what most guys use paper for.

If a guy gets bullets thru paper then creep tunes and group tunes at 60, that 1/2" tear is close to where you'll end up anyway, if not more.

I have a pulley system set up in my basement to check timing. I hook it right on the D loop and tie it to the grip up high. Are you saying that I need to go lower on the grip or let one of the cams (which one) lead a bit?

It REALLY pi**es me off that I moved my D loop up. Now my peep is too low and it is ALL the way up. Looks like I will be getting a longer ATA bow next year. Anyone want to trade? I have been giving the Vector Turbo a stern look.
 
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Brandon Pattison

Brandon Pattison

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I had the same problems (hoyt carbon, QAD rest, almost same set up as you). Couldn't figure it out and relized that it was in my form and release the caused the difference. I was dropping my arm or peaking and that resulted in the groups to show a difference.

Worse case seeing as how the Left and Right is good for your grouping size (arrow is flying straight). Dial in your bow for BH and go hunt!

Also - those are some crazy broad heads. Maybe try something that is known to fly with FP (g5, shuttle's, Slicks) and see if that fixes your problem. Even the Pro's who get their bow dialed in cannot shoot many of the bigger fixed BH on the market without re-adjusting things.

My form has been lacking a bit today. Yesterday I put my neck out of whack doing a workout (upright rows). My neck has an offset in it and I already left a message for my chiropractor today to pay a visit tomorrow. Drawing my bow is an effort.

That being said. "Readjusting"? Do you mean to just sight them in? Is it caused from my FOC changing? 6-40 threads limits my options. I have had 1" groups with field points tonight but that picture was just a random 6-arrow volley. The lighting in my basement sucks so I have a hard time aiming properly. If you look at the 3 holes under the top left 4 ring you can see it.
 

mattstanton

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If shooting a bullet hole at 10' remember that that arrow is flexing a lot right out of the bow so the low tear at close range would not worry me. I would go with the bullet hole at 10', then walk back tune to 60 and then broadhead tune. This will dial you in for hunting. When shooting my target rig, i tune a lot more. (i.e. french tune, creep tune and tiller tune) as well as the others stated above but for a hunting rig, the above sequence should serve you well.
 

a3dhunter

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Colorado Springs,CO
I've been dealing with some tuning issues this last week as well, so I feel your pain.


Drop your rest about an eight of an inch and see if your broadheads drop to same POI as field tips.
If so, then sight in from there with your broadheads because your FOC difference and the big broadhead may be a little different POI at further distances.

You might try shooting a bare shaft at 20 yards and seeing what you get.
You can also have someone watch and see how your arrow flight is, but I wouldn't worry about that at this point.
 

OR Archer

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When looking at your timing are you just looking at when the draw stops hit? Or are you also looking at the cams when they start to rotate as if being shot?
 

JNDEER

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My form has been lacking a bit today. Yesterday I put my neck out of whack doing a workout (upright rows). My neck has an offset in it and I already left a message for my chiropractor today to pay a visit tomorrow. Drawing my bow is an effort.

That being said. "Readjusting"? Do you mean to just sight them in? Is it caused from my FOC changing? 6-40 threads limits my options. I have had 1" groups with field points tonight but that picture was just a random 6-arrow volley. The lighting in my basement sucks so I have a hard time aiming properly. If you look at the 3 holes under the top left 4 ring you can see it.

If your BH group well together (just high of your FP) and no matter what you do, you cannot get them to hit together just set up your bow for BH only.

Maybe try this out first:
---I find that for my hand, the grip on the hoyt causes me to get inconsistant grips. I have to remember to grip it with a low-wrist style. Google it and find some good pictures of the hand placement and practice it.
1- get arrow at perfect 90 degrees and through the berger hole (do not start out nock high)
2- walk back tune with FP starting at 20 and go to 50 yards.
3- at 20 shoot FP and BH. Make small adjustments to get them hitting the same POI (if possible).
4- repeat and BH tune out to 40 or 50.
 

OR Archer

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Even though your draw stops may be contacting at the same time the cams can still rotate out of sync. To check this get the bow to full draw in your draw board. Then let the bow up from full draw just a little bit and look at the draw stops again. They should come off the cables evenly on the newer Hoyt cams. If they are not then you need to adjust them so they do. Then you will be in time.
 

wapitibob

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top cam should hit the stop first by about 1/8 inch for "most" people with hybrids. Your pressure point on the grip can change that. They rarely hit at the same time because of the spread between the grip pressure point and your nock point location.

My preference would be to reduce the size of that nock set by half also. I like that setup best but don't have quite the spread on the loop that you have. That particular loop setup provides for downward arrow pressure at full draw. You might be getting a little arrow/rest reaction at the shot.

You should be able to get a nock high tear pretty easily unless you have an unnatural influence such as that downward pressure or an unusual nock travel driving the back end down at the shot. The top of my nock set is roughly 3/16" up from 90 deg most of the time. That gets my arrow a little bit above 90 and I group tune from there.
 
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Brandon Pattison

Brandon Pattison

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Assuming perfect form. I set my grip before every shot as part of my sequence. My shooting skills are better in during winter leagues but I can usually keep them all in the white at 20 yards right now.

If your BH group well together (just high of your FP) and no matter what you do, you cannot get them to hit together just set up your bow for BH only.

Maybe try this out first:
---I find that for my hand, the grip on the hoyt causes me to get inconsistant grips. I have to remember to grip it with a low-wrist style. Google it and find some good pictures of the hand placement and practice it.
1- get arrow at perfect 90 degrees and through the berger hole (do not start out nock high)
2- walk back tune with FP starting at 20 and go to 50 yards.
3- at 20 shoot FP and BH. Make small adjustments to get them hitting the same POI (if possible).
4- repeat and BH tune out to 40 or 50.
 
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Brandon Pattison

Brandon Pattison

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Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
2,829
Location
Michigan
top cam should hit the stop first by about 1/8 inch for "most" people with hybrids. Your pressure point on the grip can change that. They rarely hit at the same time because of the spread between the grip pressure point and your nock point location.

My preference would be to reduce the size of that nock set by half also. I like that setup best but don't have quite the spread on the loop that you have. That particular loop setup provides for downward arrow pressure at full draw. You might be getting a little arrow/rest reaction at the shot.

You should be able to get a nock high tear pretty easily unless you have an unnatural influence such as that downward pressure or an unusual nock travel driving the back end down at the shot. The top of my nock set is roughly 3/16" up from 90 deg most of the time. That gets my arrow a little bit above 90 and I group tune from there.

if you moved the loop and the peep is too low, you must have moved that loop a bunch.

I use a low-wrist grip (from what I can tell).

Downward pressure being too much? Wow, I hadn't considered that. GREAT point!

I only moved the nock set up about the thickness of two servings. All I did was double half hitch some string around the serving and pulled every 1/4" at a time. It pulled very hard but I got it. My short ATA and the peep being all the way up to begin with is the reason that it is now too high. Maybe I anchor a bit low but it works for me. After typing this it leads me to think that I have a consistent anchor.

Summary: Make the top cam lead by 1/8" and reduce the nock set downward pressure? (I really want to move the D loop back down to where it was.)
 
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