non legal rams Alaska

[MichaelO]

Watched Tim Burnett’s newest film on blackovis and the guide mentioned that someone came into the area and killed a ram that he didn’t think was legal.

I can’t find much on what happens if a non legal ram is taken? I’d hate to trust a guides opinion and then find out my ram wasn’t legal.

 

[Jimss]

A nonlegal ram would be a nightmare! I'm pretty sure they can confiscate your rifle and ram meat/horns, fines, etc. It's nice having a no-brainer FC with 8+ rings! That's another good reason to bring your own spotting scope on an Alaska dall sheep hunt.

 

[vermeire]

It all depends on your actions after the fact. There was a post on here about a year ago about a guy that shot an illegal bull moose in AK. He contacted the wildlife troopers and ended up loosing the animal and a fair chunk of change if I remember correctly.

 

[jorijnsmit]

He has an actual movie? Or you mean his Solo Hunters series?

 

[Akwoodchuck]

Non legal kills become the property of the state...they may decide not to confiscate the meat, but of course it must still be salvaged, or a wanton waste charge would be incoming to boot....
....federally qualified subsistence hunters may take less than full curl rams, even any sheep in some areas I believe...

 

[Wildwillalaska]

If it’s a relatively close call, meaning a couple inches shy of 50” for moose, or say 7/8’s curl 7yr old ram, and you self report, meaning call the troopers upon learning of the error, you’d most likely see a fish & game strict liability violation (non-criminal charge) carrying a fine and possibly the schedul3d restitution amount for the species of animal, with forfeiture of meat and cape/skull. If you fail to self report or fail to fully and properly salvage the meat, cape, and skull, then should expect things charged as criminal offense and the state may seek seizure anforfeiture if anything used to assist in the taking and transport of the animal, which could include rifle, truck, plane, etc..

 

[MichaelO]

He has an actual movie? Or you mean his Solo Hunters series?

He did an hour long film on an Alaska sheep hunt. Blackovis.com/solohntr

I’m not headed to Alaska anytime soon and if I ever do I’ll be sure to bring my own spotter and won’t pull the trigger unless absolutely certain it’s a legal ram.

 

[Jimss]

Judging rams isn't as easy as you may think! There are a number of field guides and videos available for judging dall ram horns. It would definitely be worth refreshing yourself before a hunt!

https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/hunting/dallsheephunting/pdfs/dall_sheep_guide_to_judging_sheep_horns_under_full_curl_regulation.pdf

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/hunting/dallsheephunting/pdfs/dall_sheep_hunting_full_curl_identification_guide.pdf

 

[TX_Diver]

One of the guests on the hunt backcountry podcast awhile ago ended up with a non-legal ram.

They self reported it and I believe surrendered the meat, horns, cape. etc. I believe they had to pay a fine also but as they'd self reported it wasn't the maximum. Still sounded like a crappy situation.

 

[LK2HNT]

If you try to lie or get away with it the State of Alaska will give you the biggest hammer they can wield. If you self report and just say you messed up they will be a lot more lenient. I've heard guys taking a 49" moose and reporting it and the troopers say thank you, we're gonna let you keep it, I've also heard stories where 49" Moose get confiscated anyway. I guess its Trooper discretion how far he wants to push it and Im sure a lot of that comes down to hunters attitude. im not sure how much harder they are on you with a sheep honestly. Just stay honest no matter what, people make mistakes.

 

[Jimss]

The safest thing is to make sure your ram is legal before pulling the trigger! Usually a lot easier said than done! The more pics and videos you watch of rams the better you'll get at judging! The more you can look at in the field...the better but that isn't always possible. Hopefully you find a no brainer ram so there is no question! The rams that are borderline are the ones that are spooky!

 

[Bambistew]

At best it's about a $1200 fine, at worst its a larger fine and you can lose a bunch of gear up to the vehicle/plane used in the hunt. Don't shoot squeekers and you don't have that problem. If you have to look at them for more than 10 seconds at the right angle, and can't make them legal, look for a better sheep.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

This is why, if you hire a guide, you make sure the guide is well established with a long and successful history without falling into trouble. A well-established guide may have more to lose than the hunter if the harvested ram isn't legal, keep that in mind. A cheap or less reputable guide . . . you may be best off not going with them at all.

Most importantly, you need to be prepared to work for days of exhausting backpacking, miserable weather, finding what you think is that lifetime trophy, going another couple days of backbreaking effort to get into a good shooting position, and then accept it is not 100% certainly legal and walk away. In my book, the reward of hunting is the experience of doing the best that I can within the real world, cruel and all. Expect nothing, accept everything.

 

[Akshphntr]

Just to clarify a full curl is easy to id and dont try to count rings as ts not accurate. A full curl is a circle viewed from the side....when in doubt pass.

 

[Wildwillalaska]

The nice thing these days are the high quality glass available, and on top of that, phone scope, etc., where given even a little time you can work through a solid analysis of whether it is full curl, meets stick test, passes 360 degrees, or legal age. Last year we had a bunch of good video of the three rams we were after opening evening. Since the recovery in the cliffs below us were sketchy, we held off, and that night I went through the video’s and got solid stills just to ensure each of them were legal.

Hardship with aging is even the officials sealing have differing opinions. It’s one reason why I’ve always told folks if one office says they can’t seal it and refers them to the Wildlife Troopers, ask for the opportunity to take it for another opinion first. I know of two separate instances on close calls where one office wouldn’t seal it and another did, and a third time where one biologist wasn’t going to seal when another in the same office said it was legal and agreed to.

Always best to be sure, and even better to give a comfortable margin, but sometimes mistakes are made, or views were wrong and it’s a closer call than someone would like. Always try to avoid those predicaments obviously, but if one should ever arise, always always always best to promptly self report and if truly a close call, don’t be afraid to ask for a chance to have another set of eyes confirm it.

 

[wind gypsy]

Just to clarify a full curl is easy to id and dont try to count rings as ts not accurate. A full curl is a circle viewed from the side....when in doubt pass.

.. Or not a full circle and passes the stick test. Or not a full circle but curls 360 degrees.

 

[Silvereagle50]

.. Or not a full circle and passes the stick test. Or not a full circle but curls 360 degrees.

What is this "stick" test? I haven't heard of it...

 

[wytx]

A stick or dowel is placed at the base of the horns and extends outward. If the horns touches or passes the stick it is full curl.
https://www.adfg.alaska.gov/static/...ng_sheep_horns_under_full_curl_regulation.pdf
Same link as stated above, it describes the different methods of determining full curl.

 

[Akshphntr]

.. Or not a full circle and passes the stick test. Or not a full circle but curls 360 degrees.

Guys like this make excuses for sublegal rams. or have never been hunting sheep. Some guides only harvest no doubt about it beautiful rams and that is who to hunt with. If you have to think dont shoot....

 

[wind gypsy]

Guys like this make excuses for sublegal rams. or have never been hunting sheep. Some guides only harvest no doubt about it beautiful rams and that is who to hunt with. If you have to think dont shoot....

Are you saying understanding the different legal definitions of full curl makes one more likely to make excuses for sublegal rams?