North American Non Lead Partnership Opinions

[87TT]

-There are a couple studies that have shot and then x-rayed the animals. Lots of info from those studies about the extent fo fragmentation.

Bullet fragmentation and lead deposition in white-tailed deer and domestic sheep

MD Grund, L Cornicelli, LT Carlson, EA Butler - Human-wildlife interactions, 2010



Quantitative assessment of bullet fragments in viscera of sheep carcasses as surrogates for white-tailed deer

L Cruz-Martinez, MD Grund… - Human–Wildlife …, 2015

Since I don't gut shoot if possible and don't eat guts, I think I'll be ok. Am I the only one who cuts out and discards bloodshot meat? They rave about the benefits of organic meat but what's more organic than wild game.? Just another way to push the liberal agenda.

 

[OXN939]

Well, sounds like the OP got his answer...

No matter how well it’s worded, anything that attempts to limit anything that has to do with guns or hunting is invariably linked to antis and lefts.

Did I? I'm pretty sure this thread was started to gauge interest in a completely voluntary, sportsman-led initiative that has absolutely nothing to do with government and here we are on page 5 with guys warning about magazine bans in New York and suggesting that anyone who disagrees with them is retarded.

I appreciate the input, especially from the CA residents here. I hated just about every day of the 18 months I was stationed there, and feel really horrible for guys who have watched progressives twist facts to basically punish outdoorsmen. However, I'll observe this: There was no voluntary program like this in CA prior to the ban. Doubtful much would have changed if there had been, since CA is so communist anyway, but in other more reasonable states, a program like this could be a really powerful talking point to show that government involvement is unnecessary.

And, since it's been asked quite a few times, here is another independent study having nothing to do with CA or AZ or condors or any other political prop that shows pretty clearly what happens when game animals are shot with lead. I again have no dog in this fight, other than not wanting my family to eat toxins, but the science is pretty conclusive on the specific question of whether lead from bullets can be found in game animals.

 

[Tod osier]

Since I don't gut shoot if possible and don't eat guts, I think I'll be ok. Am I the only one who cuts out and discards bloodshot meat? They rave about the benefits of organic meat but what's more organic than wild game.? Just another way to push the liberal agenda.

I'm not going to convince you of anything it seems. If you read those papers, however, you would find that you are incorrect that cutting out bloodshot meat removes the lead from the remaining meat when using high velocity lead-based ammunition. Hundreds or thousands of microscopic particles of lead travel way beyond the actual wounded tissue.

Eating lead contaminated guts is one of the main issues that people are concerned with.

 

[Tod osier]

Do sportsmen have higher lead levels in their blood compared to non hunting public?

Yes, that has been found that people that eat game have higher levels. Do they have very high levels? No, but they have been found to have higher levels than non-eaters.

Hunting with lead: Association between blood lead levels and wild game consumption

Iqbal et al 2009.

 

[Trial153]

So as hunters and sportsmen if we give up our rights to anti gun anti hunting groups we can improve our image?


I used to live in NYC where it was a felony to possess any firearm or possess one round of ammo. Didn't just ban magazines and semi auto rifles in NY? How's that working out for you NY ers?

Many hunters are not sitting on their hands but are very pro active and are members in Mule deer foundation, DU, ruffed grouse society, TU RMEF etc. Maybe you should do you part.

thankfully I don't normally see anything you posted, however since you quoted me I will respond.

I don't live in NYC and when I did, and worked there I was licensed to carry concealed, thankfully I don't work down there anymore. I can still carry concealed in the rest of the state and most states for that matter. NY gun laws suck, no way around that, however I pretty fortunate that they currently don't affect or limit me in anyway based on my wants and needs.

Of the organizations you listed I am a member of a couple, a life member actually. I also life memberships in a few other conservation organizations ( WSF, NECWSF, P&Y, NRA,) I have also been president of a houndsman Association in the Northeast, sat on the Board of Directors and donated several thousand hours of pro Bono work in that capacity. I like to think I have played a small part here and there.

No no doubt I can do better in several areas and I am always trying to improve, for example if I needed advice being an Internet blowhard I'll send you a message asking for advise.

Alas I stand by my statement that us hunters have sat on our hands way to much in the past and too often we are only motivated when we were on the defensive.

 

[Where's Bruce?]

Okay everyone...time to realize your only ethical option is to switch to hunting with a stickbow like I did.
There, problem solved. "Next!"

 

[Marble]

My problem is that people (organizations)are coming into an arguement, or creating one, with a solution for a problem that isnt a problem. The solution potentially has a restriction, which then makes it it more difficult to source and use ammo etc. Hence the slippery slope.

Every year in CA there is a other law passed that further pushes a previous law that restricts something beyond the reach of the sportsman. That foot in the door gets them one step closer.

My son who just turned 18 cant even go buy ammo to duck hunt with until he either purchases a firearm or goes through an entire background check which for the most part, my good friends are getting denied for unexplainable reasons. Its another hurdle. A other expense. Another difficulty.

People who haven't expereinced it dont get it.

I will never support anything that further restricts anything with guns or ammo. It's not needed.

 

[Marble]

Okay everyone...time to realize your only ethical option is to switch to hunting with a stickbow like I did.
There, problem solved. "Next!"

View attachment 157928

This is actually my next adventure. This winter I'm thinking about getting one. Soon as my shoulder is healthy...

 

[Okhotnik]

My problem is that people (organizations)are coming into an arguement, or creating one, with a solution for a problem that isnt a problem. The solution potentially has a restriction, which then makes it it more difficult to source and use ammo etc. Hence the slippery slope.

Every year in CA there is a other law passed that further pushes a previous law that restricts something beyond the reach of the sportsman. That foot in the door gets them one step closer.

My son who just turned 18 cant even go buy ammo to duck hunt with until he either purchases a firearm or goes through an entire background check which for the most part, my good friends are getting denied for unexplainable reasons. Its another hurdle. A other expense. Another difficulty.

People who haven't expereinced it dont get it.

I will never support anything that further restricts anything with guns or ammo. It's not needed.

funny how these thread bring out the sportsmen that support gun bans

 

[spike camp]

Did I? I'm pretty sure this thread was started to gauge interest in a completely voluntary, sportsman-led initiative that has absolutely nothing to do with government and here we are on page 5 with guys warning about magazine bans in New York and suggesting that anyone who disagrees with them is retarded.

I appreciate the input, especially from the CA residents here. I hated just about every day of the 18 months I was stationed there, and feel really horrible for guys who have watched progressives twist facts to basically punish outdoorsmen. However, I'll observe this: There was no voluntary program like this in CA prior to the ban. Doubtful much would have changed if there had been, since CA is so communist anyway, but in other more reasonable states, a program like this could be a really powerful talking point to show that government involvement is unnecessary.

And, since it's been asked quite a few times, here is another independent study having nothing to do with CA or AZ or condors or any other political prop that shows pretty clearly what happens when game animals are shot with lead. I again have no dog in this fight, other than not wanting my family to eat toxins, but the science is pretty conclusive on the specific question of whether lead from bullets can be found in game animals.

No, I don’t think you did get you answer and my quoted comment above was facetious as well.

‘Dumb condors’ summed it up nicely, and solidified my assumption.

Left, right or sideways aside, lead is a toxin, that impacts many downstream.
If ya don’t think so, you live under a rock.

I personally don’t care if Colorado banned 20 round mags...I’m sitting on a pile of them for my 6.8

Do sportsmen and women have higher lead levels...probably, guess it depends which blurb you read.
Do fisherman have higher mercury levels?
Probably, depends on how much fish and shellfish they consume.

If hunting with out lead projectiles, in areas where animals live that are highly sensitive to lead, further protects those animals...I’m ok with that.
Go buy a more expensive Bullet and quit yer bitching.

 

[Ndbowhunter]

telling some one to “quit your bitchin” says everything about your arguement.

Shut up, I know better then you. I have moral outrage. I’m an expert. and a scientist.

You literally can’t even make it up.

5 pages only and the truth comes out.

 

[AkMtnRunner]

If you're for open markets, people preferring copper bullets shouldn't bother you.

 

[go4thegusto]

A recent DNR study in MN pointed out that a single split shot of lead can kill a Loon or other bottom feeding waterfowl. I was not aware that Loons picked up pebbles off the lake bottom to aid their gizzards until this article.
I am going to recycle all my lead tackle and spend a few extra bucks on non-toxic weights.
Presents a very close parallel to ammo.
Being stewards of the resources we love is not political, anti-gun, or anti-freedom.

 

[netman]

Everyone getting their feathers ruffled, but read it once again, and then once more....the Non-Lead Partnership I'm talking about is a completely voluntary initiative started by hunters for hunters to protect wildlife, and is not affiliated with any kind of government agency in any form.

How about you volunteering not to hunt anymore. That would help other hunters. That’s a hunter for hunters.

 

[ODB]

Who is making money on this partnership?

 

[spike camp]

telling some one to “quit your bitchin” says everything about your arguement.

Shut up, I know better then you. I have moral outrage. I’m an expert. and a scientist.

You literally can’t even make it up.

5 pages only and the truth comes out.

Ya
If you want to hunt in areas where lead is an issue, quit your bitching and buy the appropriate ammunition or carry out your animals gut pile.
Problem solved.

 

[spike camp]

How about you volunteering not to hunt anymore. That would help other hunters. That’s a hunter for hunters.

How about choosing non toxic ammunition?

Anyone bitching about steel shot for water foul?

 

[Ndbowhunter]

You can buy meat at the store why would you even bother with copper.

quit ur bitchin its the same cost anyways.

 

[KurtR]

How about choosing non toxic ammunition?

Anyone bitching about steel shot for water foul?

were you around when that went into affect? Steel shot wounded more birds than lead did by eating it.

 

[Wapiti1]

were you around when that went into affect? Steel shot wounded more birds than lead did by eating it.

Not with the guys I hunted with. The ducks were just as safe before and after the lead ban. The two things that changed were the price of the shells and how much lead they sprayed aimlessly into the air. I watched one bud shoot three shots at a mallard, reload and shoot three more. That stupid duck circled the blind at no more than 20 yards the whole time. Then he wisely gave us the middle feather and flew off.

Does lead do bad things? Yep. Lots of things are bad. Apparently, drinking is bad. What? Not possible!! Beer is decidedly good. As is wine and bourbon (some, not all). Too much is bad (hmm isn't lead kind of that way?). Sometimes, I think.....I don't remember...…..

Are we heading toward Armageddon? No. Eagle numbers and falcon numbers are at an all time high. Condor numbers are also up, but I'm pretty sure they are screwed for evolutionary reasons not related to lead. Hunter numbers are going down, but it ain't lead poisoning. There are bigger fish to fry than this one.

We need to harness this scourge and figure out how to poison silver carp, pythons in the Everglades, invasive horses in Nevada and snakeheads. Then we will be onto something.

Jeremy