Northern Idaho elk vs wolves?... The numbers don't add up

[mtmuley]

He isn't interested in discussing anything. Only being an antagonist.

I'm not trying to antagonize anybody. We have lots of wolves where I hunt. I didn't ask for them, but the damn things are here. So, I could sit around and cry about it, or do what's necessary to still kill an elk. Since they showed up here, I've notched a tag every year. And, I hunt the wolves too. Simple as that. mtmuley

 

[Shrek]

Apple maggots?

Idaho residents term for Washington State residents

 

[RCB]

The numbers are like apples and basketballs. There are so many variables and ways to count them that it can't be reliable. The fact is that there used to be a lot less hunters and a lot more elk and deer. So maybe no one reported there harvest then and some don't now.

I'm sure there is truth to that. And it varies around the state. But this paper (linked it before) from the state says that Idaho elk populations were the following in the past:
1965: 81,000
1975: 50,600
1981: 90,325
(https://www.wafwa.org/Documents and Settings/37/Site Documents/Working Groups/Elk Workshops/1984 Edmonton Alberta Elk Workshop/1984 Edmonton Alberta Elk Workshop/Idaho Elk Population Status-Depredation Problems.pdf)

From other websites, I seem to remember reading that elk populations peaked around the mid-1990s at around 120k or so. Since then they have dipped to something like 107k. I'm sure wolves played a role in that drop. But that's still more than in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.

But remember this thread is about Northern Idaho, not about Idaho as a whole. I don't know any numbers for that. Totally possible that numbers have declined in that area, as people here are saying. In other words, these numbers do not contradict people who say that specific areas of Idaho have fewer elk or are harder to hunt.

 

[BroodBuster]

Idaho residents term for Washington State residents

They must really like apple maggots then seeing how well I've been treated every time I visit. If I do run into an asshole all I've got to do is start bitching about wolves and all of a sudden I'm a good dude.

 

[Shrek]

They must really like apple maggots then seeing how well I've been treated every time I visit. If I do run into an asshole all I've got to do is start bitching about wolves and all of a sudden I'm a good dude.

The people I learned that term from treated Washington residents well and hunt with Washington residents. I did notice that every other truck had a Washington tag on it when I hunted the CDA NF. It’s much like Florida and Yankees.

 

[T3clay]

With a total Idaho wolf population of less than 900 and up to 5 wolf tags per person I'm starting to wonder why they still think there is a wolf problem? It seems ID G&F have our the solution right into the hands of the hunters.

 

[Wrench]

It's funny to be called an apple maggot by some potato head that doesn't know the hammer lane is for going faster than the rest of traffic.

Trust me, you want the apple maggots hunting your state. We all have jobs and spend our cash there. It provides more trucks for the local crack heads to hit lowering your odds of getting ripped off.

Ps, thanks for the steaks.

 

[WV Mountaineer]

Mtmuley, What does that truly have to do with the effect wolves have had on elk herds? I’m happy for you. Sounds like you are a good elk hunter. But, that doesn’t have anything to do with the topic.

I’m not trying to be smart either. I just don’t see why people telling of their experiences have to be mocked. Maybe they aren’t the hunter you are. Might not have time, ability, etc..,. Or, their area may be a different circumstance. It still does nothing for the OP’s question to chastise.

That’s my point.

 

[Ross]

Easier said than done on the wolves in much of the country north that is heavily timbered and most of the season inaccessible from December through March for most due to snow.....trapping is the only way to stack them up but with checking requirements this is not an option for most people who have full time jobs.....case in point in the drainage I speak of to get to it in December two hr drive two hour track in then snowshoe two hours just to get there...met trapper this spring who like myself has been going in here since the 80s said most wolf sign he has seen anywhere and he trapped 8 wolves this winter in another are and showd me photos of them all hanging shook his hand 3 times....the wolves simply have a hay day during winter as no one can get to them on a routine basis.in snow that gets 5 -8 feet deep...good luck to anyone wanting to shoot one as most kills with a weapon in this country are chance encounters versus dedicated hunting of wolves

 

[Okhotnik]

B

Easier said than done on the wolves in much of the country north that is heavily timbered and most of the season inaccessible from December through March for most due to snow.....trapping is the only way to stack them up but with checking requirements this is not an option for most people who have full time jobs.....case in point in the drainage I speak of to get to it in December two hr drive two hour track in then snowshoe two hours just to get there...met trapper this spring who like myself has been going in here since the 80s said most wolf sign he has seen anywhere and he trapped 8 wolves this winter in another are and showd me photos of them all hanging shook his hand 3 times....the wolves simply have a hay day during winter as no one can get to them on a routine basis.in snow that gets 5 -8 feet deep...good luck to anyone wanting to shoot one as most kills with a weapon in this country are chance encounters versus dedicated hunting of wolves

yeh the heavy snow and terrain really limit access to target wolves in the winter

That’s really tough country to hunt with snow

 

[Wrench]

When you see wolves on silver mtn and when riding sleds on the northside of the valley.....you know they're thick.

Look at how data is/was collected. Today we have technology that is much better than the 80's and earlier. Predator counting is nearly impossible without technology. They make their living by being sneaky....not the easiest to track.

 

[excaliber]

Number wise you'd think that would be an easy cure right? The problem is these Wolves are smart sons a guns. I've only seen one in all the years here and that was on a scouting trip. There was a pack within 500 yards of us on an elk hunt but we never saw them although they howled for over 30 minutes before and right after sunrise. I don't know anyone here personally who's got a shot at one.

They are almost like ghosts.

With a total Idaho wolf population of less than 900 and up to 5 wolf tags per person I'm starting to wonder why they still think there is a wolf problem? It seems ID G&F have our the solution right into the hands of the hunters.

 

[mtmuley]

Mtmuley, What does that truly have to do with the effect wolves have had on elk herds? I’m happy for you. Sounds like you are a good elk hunter. But, that doesn’t have anything to do with the topic.

I’m not trying to be smart either. I just don’t see why people telling of their experiences have to be mocked. Maybe they aren’t the hunter you are. Might not have time, ability, etc..,. Or, their area may be a different circumstance. It still does nothing for the OP’s question to chastise.

That’s my point.

My apologies. Guess I took things off topic. mtmuley

 

[Mike7]

I don't put much stock in reported wolf numbers at the current time. They are just a minimum documented best guess based upon multiple factors, with many of those factors not applicable to N. ID. In all reality, there are likely many more.

Everything with the wolf reintroduction process seems to have been based upon best guesses, guesses which were often wrong, and that assumes that the public has always been told the truth.

When wolf numbers are above objective everywhere like they are now, there is not a lot of importance, effort, or money that is going to be focused on accurate wolf counts, and rightly so.

 

[bummer7580]

Until you see the affects of a pack predator after having hunted the same drainages since 1980 don’t try to speculate on why harvest data looks similar. I have personal experience of what has occurred in north Idaho since 1980. You used to find 100s of elk camps and long time elk killers you now find ghosts towns and locals writing on the river road the elk are all dead thank you fish and game. As noted above there used to be a liberal cow season it is as then reduced when wolves moved in and now is gone. You can still hunt cows near private property only as that is where the elk have migrated in many places as they are safer next to people than evading wolves 365 days a year. This then helps to make the data look much much better than it is in many units. Plain and simple in backcountry north Idaho areas in many drainages established wolf packs put a big hurting on the populations of ungulates and if you don’t have decades of hunting in these areas before the wolves you have no idea how things have changed. Fish and game never says anything negative about the wolves it is always something else on why things have gone south.

In MN the story is the same. We now have about 3000 wolves. The DNR has cancelled the moose season blaming the crash in moose numbers on "climate change". Every time a wolf season is proposed the suburban wolf lovers go to court to stop it. Insanity,

 

[87TT]

I guess it's OK to try to stop climate change but not OK to stop the wolves from decimating the elk, moose and deer. We are just supposed to learn to live with it. Both supposedly caused by man. Unlike the drastic measures proposed for climate change. Dam* snowflakes.

 

[Ryan Avery]

900 wolves... right. I would bet hard money it's over 2000. I am in the wolf woods more than most and rarely see them in our North Idaho rain forests.

If anyone truly wants to help kill wolves, join https://www.foundationforwildlifemanagement.org/

Trapping them is really the only way to curb the population and you need experienced trappers for that, the foundation helps get those trappers in the mountains

 

[Mike 338]

Success rates have so many variables, not the least of which is how the game is managed by Fish and Game. I will say that wolf sign is quite a bit less than 7 or 8 years ago. I could go out in Central/South Idaho and find all kinds of wolf tracks after a skiff of snow however their tracks are just not as prominent as before. Could be disease. Could be they just moved after decimating a herd. Could be I'm just looking in the wrong place. Buy a tag and go out and have a good time.