old tactics, new elk

[bnsafe]

So Ive had some time to think about my 2 elk hunts this year. I am no elk guru by any measure, but in my previous 4 trips I have always seen elk. This year none. I hadnt hunted elk in 8 years and things were different this year. More people, much more deadfall to start with. The bulls were more vocal than I have ever heard them, but we were close several times and never saw a thing.
So I am wondering, I use to set up close to them, call and see if they or at least a sattellite would come in and was fairly successful ish. Do I need to change tactics. Get even more aggressive, leave the calls in the truck and stalk more, or just chalk it up to a bad year and keep doing what worked 8 years ago.

 

[Wrench]

Describe your setups. It sounds like you have a grip on what worked.....but if that was sitting on a rock honkin' a hoochie momma, I would suspect yoy hit the lottery twice. If you were in my type of jungle, you may have had bulls inside 30 yards and never known....

Feed us more info.

 

[bnsafe]

dark timber with small patches of openings. sceery cow call, I dont use hoochie, and mouth calls for different sounds. either sitting on ground or behind trees. I grew up hunting mo turkeys, you dont get away with doing stupid things. Im solid in my hunting, just not sure what I use to do will work now due to pressure, deadfall, etc, or if I need to revamp my stradegies.

 

[bnsafe]

I bugled occassionally but mainly cow calls. some soft, sometimes I got aggressive. My bugles sounded better this year than ever before, at least to me. I raked trees thinking that might be a diff sound.

 

[ElkNut1]

A lot of what you ask is fairly common; many have similar questions.

Being versatile can certainly help, this allows the hunter to adjust & adapt to the terrain & the elk he's dealing with that day! Personally I enjoy Call & Stalk, Spot & Stalk, Treestanding, Sitting some Water Sources, Run & Gun, Challenges & certain Sequences depending on the situation. There are times that not much is going on, little to no bugling is heard & my bugling only gets a random bugle back, most times just one returned & they won't respond to any other calls, this is normal stuff in many OTC or General elk hunting units!

When I hit those days of little action here's what I turn too, this Sequence kicks butt! I did 4 setups with it this year & called in 7 different bulls & a handful of cows. This may help you out as well. ---------------

Start an elk party! -- In the App it's called Creative Cow Sequence, it's found at the bottom of the main pages under Sequences! (There's a video of sounds used) To locate elk consider bugling paved/dirt roads an hour before light to locate bulls or run & gun if preferred until you find sign or just know elk are in the area by sound or sight. Once found; get to 200-500 yards away from them, bedding areas are best for this sequence & elk are generally found to be in or near them around 9:30 a.m. & on. You do not need to be in the bedding area; just be within earshot of it. Once setup with the wind right you'll want to imitate as many cow sounds as you can with 3-4 different cow calls if solo, if with other hunters have them chime in too with two cow calls each, you guys will sound like a chorus of cows as you cast your chatter left, right & behind you. Change volume, pitch & tone as you make it sound realistic. Do this for 5 - 6 minutes, wind it up & wind it down. You can randomly toss out a cow call or two over the next 2 minutes letting other elk know you are still there.

No bugling in this Sequence. -- Be mindful to have callers face each other 5 yards apart, this gives you a 360 view for those elk that show where you didn't think they would! Sit & wait. Stay FOCUSED!!! Most Elk will come in silent! Most elk show up within 20 minutes but wait for 45min! If nothing shows (which is very rare) move a 1/4 mile but still in the general area since you know elk are there & repeat!

This is a very deadly tactic!

ElkNut

 

[bnsafe]

thanks to all, esp paul. I appreciate it. I am trying to decide rather to move on to another location, or beat the elk there. I like the spot, but so do alot of other hunters.

 

[SteepandDeep]

Seeing as you are into elk, moving locations wouldn’t even cross my mind unless I blew them out or had another good spot to hunt until the crowd leaves your original area.

I’m fairly certain Paul would choose “beat the elk there”

 

[ElkNut1]

Bnsafe, you know elk are there; now you just have to out smart them! (grin) Separate yourself from other hunters best you can, it shouldn't be too difficult; remember Tactics as I described above can bring elk as far as 3/4 of a mile away. You will need patience to wait them out but they do show up! Again, I generally will rely on this when elk are not very active otherwise I'm Spot & Stalk or Calling to locate then silently move in on them. What I do next once there depends on any additional elk sounds I may hear from the bull I've targeted. Each situation can be different! It could be a Breeding Type Sequence, Slow Play, Advertising Bugles In His Bedding Area or a Full Send Challenge depending on his attitude.

Giving a few cow calls or cow calls & a small bugle just doesn't cut it these days on most OTC elk, you need to be much more aggressive & persistent in your calling at the right times!

SteepandDeep, I will comment on your thread as well but this Tactic will work great on your Dec elk hunt!

ElkNut

 

[cnelk]

Bnsafe, you know elk are there; now you just have to out smart them! (grin) Separate yourself from other hunters best you can, it shouldn't be too difficult; remember Tactics as I described above can bring elk as far as 3/4 of a mile away. You will need patience to wait them out but they do show up! Again, I generally will rely on this when elk are not very active otherwise I'm Spot & Stalk or Calling to locate then silently move in on them. What I do next once there depends on any additional elk sounds I may hear from the bull I've targeted. Each situation can be different! It could be a Breeding Type Sequence, Slow Play, Advertising Bugles In His Bedding Area or a Full Send Challenge depending on his attitude.

Giving a few cow calls or cow calls & a small bugle just doesn't cut it these days on most OTC elk, you need to be much more aggressive & persistent in your calling at the right times!

SteepandDeep, I will comment on your thread as well but this Tactic will work great on your Dec elk hunt!

ElkNut

Elknut

You really should come and hunt an heavily pressured OTC unit in Colorado sometime.
You may be surprised that some of your tactics don’t work

 

[MJB]

A lot of what you ask is fairly common; many have similar questions.

Being versatile can certainly help, this allows the hunter to adjust & adapt to the terrain & the elk he's dealing with that day! Personally I enjoy Call & Stalk, Spot & Stalk, Treestanding, Sitting some Water Sources, Run & Gun, Challenges & certain Sequences depending on the situation. There are times that not much is going on, little to no bugling is heard & my bugling only gets a random bugle back, most times just one returned & they won't respond to any other calls, this is normal stuff in many OTC or General elk hunting units!

When I hit those days of little action here's what I turn too, this Sequence kicks butt! I did 4 setups with it this year & called in 7 different bulls & a handful of cows. This may help you out as well. ---------------

Start an elk party! -- In the App it's called Creative Cow Sequence, it's found at the bottom of the main pages under Sequences! (There's a video of sounds used) To locate elk consider bugling paved/dirt roads an hour before light to locate bulls or run & gun if preferred until you find sign or just know elk are in the area by sound or sight. Once found; get to 200-500 yards away from them, bedding areas are best for this sequence & elk are generally found to be in or near them around 9:30 a.m. & on. You do not need to be in the bedding area; just be within earshot of it. Once setup with the wind right you'll want to imitate as many cow sounds as you can with 3-4 different cow calls if solo, if with other hunters have them chime in too with two cow calls each, you guys will sound like a chorus of cows as you cast your chatter left, right & behind you. Change volume, pitch & tone as you make it sound realistic. Do this for 5 - 6 minutes, wind it up & wind it down. You can randomly toss out a cow call or two over the next 2 minutes letting other elk know you are still there.

No bugling in this Sequence. -- Be mindful to have callers face each other 5 yards apart, this gives you a 360 view for those elk that show where you didn't think they would! Sit & wait. Stay FOCUSED!!! Most Elk will come in silent! Most elk show up within 20 minutes but wait for 45min! If nothing shows (which is very rare) move a 1/4 mile but still in the general area since you know elk are there & repeat!

This is a very deadly tactic!

ElkNut

My buddies and I do this but we end it with a low soft bugle away from our calling to make it sound like another bull is sneaking in.

I always say think out of the box when things get tough

 

[ElkNut1]

cnelk, it's similar to hunters saying you cannot Bugle Bulls on OTC or General unit elk hunts anymore! Of course you can; too many hunters prove this possible every year. It's done successfully year in & year out just as the Sequence shared above is! Every tactic I share has been proven for many years on OTC public land hunts! Thanks!

ElkNut

 

[Deadfall]

Elknut

You really should come and hunt an heavily pressured OTC unit in Colorado sometime.
You may be surprised that some of your tactics don’t work

Position plays a large part in success of these tactics. Working for positioning when calling starts first thing in morning.

For instance. Elk move up in morning and down in evening. If you wait to start cow calling until 11 am when you are almost on top or on top, you just introduced a new band of cows to a area where elk all know each other. Throws there hinky meter up right off the bat. The cows you are introducing should be introduced first thing in the morning. Atleast a couple if you are using cow sounds at all. Same with the bull horn.

Elk may only here a whisper of those tones in the morning. As you move up the hill, elk will here more and more. Will just think another band has moved in from somewhere. In the middle of day when things been quiet and you start the dirty cow parade. Elk already know there's cows there. Now you just peaking interest. Hence why they come silent. Curiosity kills the cat every time.

FYI, I started elk hunting in Colorado with my family in the 80s. Back then we were still using a plethora of hose whistles and various things for calls. My uncles are in their 60s and still sticking elk in Colorado every year with the same kind of stuff being discussed.

The problem today is too much reliance on technology. Not enough on bush craft.

Ever been to the Midwest during rut. Whitetail buck will lay down in wide open field and let you go right by.

Elk are also ungalates and employ the exact same trick. I have personally watched this happen through binos.

There's only a couple scenarios that I even talk to other elk. Most of the time I am just a few elk moving around doing what elk do. Curiosity is what I'm after.

The tactics Mr. Paul speaks of are mostly curiosity raising tactics.

Look at it as a game plan for football. If the plan is executed with precision good things happen. Miss a step or two and it all falls apart. Same with hunting elk.

Elk have moods. That's why elknut was talking about versatility. Got to meet the elk where they are physically and emotionally. Not where you think they should be.

As for "overcrowding" well that's the best scouting tool out there. Just have to find the spots others are missing. Maybe elk weren't in x drainage yesterday, but if people hit y drainage yesterday, then perhaps x is busy today. So on a 7 day hunt you should have 28 drainages to choose from. That's before you even leave the house. Then every day hit a new drainage.

 

[Deadfall]

On a animalistic level. Humans have alot in common with elk. What do men want after a nice nap. Its not a fight right out of the gate. This thought process holds true for the different age classes as well. Young bulls compare to young men. Old bulls compare to old men.

 

[cnelk]

I’ve had great success doing opposite of most of Elknuts tactics

 

[cnelk]

I’ve also hunted in areas where elk move DOWN in the morning and UP in the evenings

 

[Deadfall]

 

[SteepandDeep]

I’ve had great success doing opposite of most of Elknuts tactics

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[ElkNut1]

cnelk, I have 100's of photos & testimonies from successful elk hunters all over CO OTC public land elk hunts from over the years including some from you.

There isn't much I wouldn't employ when it comes to the different ways to attract elk to my position. I've been doing it for a lot of years & have assisted thousands of others towards their success. Most of this on OTC or General Unit elk hunts in nearly every place that holds an elk season. The tactics & sequences flat out work & can put elk in front of you! Like anything else we have to do our part as Deadfall mentions.

Some of the reasons that any Calling Tactic can fail generally falls on the hunter not the Tactic used. Some don't know Where or How to Setup with proper cover & wind. Others get fidgety after 10 minutes & are busted by an elks silent approach they never knew were there. Some just flat do not know how to call but they think they do & others talk amongst themselves as if approaching elk could never hear them. -- When nothing positive happens after an attempt or two they are quick to blame the Tactic instead of themselves, it's human nature!

Guys, we have to do our part! This applies to any & all facets of elk hunting!

ElkNut

 

[BRTreedogs]

I’ve had great success doing opposite of most of Elknuts tactics

So this is a serious question.
Can you elaborate?

Not sure i believe that you just sit in the woods silent.?

 

[AaronMColeman]

Paul, I listen to your app all the time. More than anything it's taught me to translate elk into human. I more or less know what the elk are saying and that has done more for my ability to get in on them than anything else.

The cow party certainly works. I love @Deadfall 's idea of starting the set up from pre-dawn and running it through the slow part of the day.

I can tell you the "cold" cow party works all times of the day. If you know one elk tactic, that's the one to know. On public land, in a crowd, by a road, with an average (at best) caller. I can also tell it does not work 100% of the time (for me with my skills). So don't get you hopes too high. It's just the best tactic when they aren't talking and you don't see them.

In fact, I'm heading out early next day or so and all I'm doing is the roaming herd / cow party idea...on public land, with pressure...I'll bet it will either work, or not work