Paper tune then broad head tune?

[Wodez]

Hi archers

I’m a little confused with tuning a bow. There’s paper tuning and broadhead tuning and a few others. I’ll just stick to these 2 unless there are better options.
But if I paper tune and get that shooting correct but then have to broadhead tune to get my target points and broadheads to group together is that not making the bow not tuned. Because I am altering from the paper tune.

shootin a Hoyt pro defiant 70
29in arrows with 125gr heads

 

[npro04]

Yes and No. The way I do it is if it’s a new bow or rest or anything I’ll start with paper tuning just to make sure I’m starting from a good point. Then I like to use a form of walk back tuning or some call it modified French tuning. Then when that’s good typically you need minimal tweaking to get your broadheads and field points close. Ultimate goal is accurate broadheads so I tend to get less worried about making the field points and broadheads touch as much as I focus on where the broadheads are flying. John Dudley has a few good YouTube clips explaining a lot of it. Worth a watch.

 

[WakePraySlay]

I just did an arrow build and posted a 49 page Tutorial. It’s a few post down and explains how I like to tune my arrows.

*MY PERSONAL OPINION*- making your arrows as symmetrical as possible using a bare shaft and a fletched shaft tuning process with field points should,in my own theory, make your BH’s fly all the same and group together. Not necessarily with your field points. To me it’s more important to have a proper setup including the correct arrow spine matched with your bow, properly indexed arrows, as well as a consistent arrow setup/build. Bottom line a straight flying arrow will produce tight and consistent groups as well as getting the most kinetic energy upon impact of your target. This is why I choose a this process

1.paper tune with a bare shaft at 3-5 feet from the paper using a FP. For tail left and right I will yoke tune (add a twist, take out a twist, or a combination of both depending on cam lean @ full draw and axle to axle spec). For nock high/low I will adjust the rest on the vertical plane. Until I get a bullet hole with a bare shaft.

2. I will do the same thing with a fletched arrow at the same distance using a FP. I don’t touch the horizontal setting on my rest until the next few steps.

3. I will back up to 10-15 feet shooting the bare shaft first through paper. Usually the tail left/right tear will be close. To fix it I will MICRO ADJUST my rest with the horizontal movements this time (right/left). A little goes a long way! Tail high/low adjust with my rest on the vertical plane (up/down).Until a bullet hole is achieved.

4. Same process using fletched arrows with FP’s as number 3 process.

5. shoot both a fletched and bare shaft next to eachother. Should be shooting bullet holes. Now your bow string is symmetrically pushing the arrows straight (hypothetically).



6. I usually do walk back tuning(using FP’s). I put blue painters tape in a straight line down the middle of my target. Start at 20 yards using my 20 yard pin (Assuming you’re 20yard pin is sighted in) aiming at the top of the blue tape on my target. I’ll get a group (Should be on the blue tape if not re sight in your 20 yard pin) then move back to 50-60 yards aiming at the same spot with my same 20 yard pin. Shoot a group. The arrows will hit low but will tell you if you need to micro adjust your rest. If they hit right or left of the blue tape at the 50-60 yard mark then you need to adjust the rest until your 20 and 50-60 yard groups are in a straight vertical line, on the blue tape.

7. I’ll shoot my fletched arrow with a FP at 20 yards followed by a bare shaft. Depending where the bare shaft hits, either right or left of the fletched arrow, I’ll adjust my rest right or left to bring the fletched and bare shaft to 1/2” or less of each other. You can usually see if the bare shaft is indexing Tail right or left When you go pull your arrows out of the target.

8. After all that is accomplished I’ll sight in my BH’s *Adjusting my sight housing only* Because you already know the arrows are coming out of your bow square

 

[doncarpenter]

Hi archers

I’m a little confused with tuning a bow. There’s paper tuning and broadhead tuning and a few others. I’ll just stick to these 2 unless there are better options.
But if I paper tune and get that shooting correct but then have to broadhead tune to get my target points and broadheads to group together is that not making the bow not tuned. Because I am altering from the paper tune.

shootin a Hoyt pro defiant 70
29in arrows with 125gr heads

You are correct, there are lots of ways to skin this cat. I always start with paper tuning, then do a modified walk back tune, then check broadheads with my hunting bows.

If you are thinking that you're throwing off your tune by broadhead tuning after paper you're incorrect. Broadhead flight is the ultimate goal on a hunting bow and paper tuning is a starting point.

All of this is dependent upon your ability to be consistent in your form as well. Without good and consistent form you will be chasing your tail.

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[jt4]

The way I think of it is that paper tuning is your starting point. It’s going to get you close. Broad head tuning is my end point where I know I’m ready to go hunting. That’s the simplest way I would explain it.


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[Brendan]

Most important is broadheads and field points at distance. But, you need to be able to consistently group at whatever distance you're testing to tell the difference. For me - when I'm shooting well, I want broadheads grouping with my field points at 80 yards, except maybe a little drop from the broadhead.

How I do it: I don't paper tune any more, for me it's a waste of time. I just shoot bare shaft vs. fletched at 5-10, 20, and 30 yards, adjust until they group the same. Then, swap over to broadheads vs. field points. If you're pressed for time - do bare shafts 5-10 at home first, adjust, then head to the range and shoot bare shafts and broadheads v field points at the range to fine tune. Done and done.

The initial adjustments at home in the basement get me surprisingly close. I'm looking for difference in impact point and impact angle of the bare shaft as compared to fletched. (But, be careful with angle depending on type of target you're shooting into, foam / block style targets should be fine, bag targets not always)

 

[TheViking]

My tuning process - (after rest is installed and nock points, d-loop tied)

1 - verify/adjust timing
2 - make sure center shot is where it’s supposed to be (whole different topic per bow manufacturer)
3 - shoot a bare shaft through paper at about 3’ (just enough to where it’s fully left the bow)
4 - tune accordingly - raise/lower rest to fix vertical tear.
5 - step back to about 8’ and shoot another bare shaft. Fix any vertical tear by adjusting rest up/down. If there’s a bad left/right rear then I’ll start to play with my top hats (Mathews bow)
6 - shoot a bareshaft at 20’-25’ it is said that it takes 21’ for an arrow to stop flexing and stabilize when it leaves a bow. I’m not 100% this is accurate or not, but it’s what I’ve always went off of. At this distance fix any tears until you have a perfect bullet hole. This can be difficult if you don’t have proper form. Torque grip is a biggie for a lot of people.
7 - if all is well, then I go outside and start to shoot groups at 20 yards with fletched arrows. Get your sight dialed in. Then I’ll mix in a bare shaft with the fletched shaft groups. You want that bareshaft to be hitting in that same group as the fletched arrows.
8 - once that’s all good, then I step back to 30 and repeat.
9 - once that’s all good I step back to 40 and repeat.
10 - shoot a bareshaft, fletched field point and a fletched arrow with a broadhead. They should all be hitting the same (as well as you can shoot).

Then I’m done. I’ve never had a fixed broadhead that doesn’t shoot great after doing all this.

Most people don’t bareshaft past 20, and that’s fine. I’m a western hunter and shoot out to 80-90 regularly. I’ve found that doing it out to 20 works great, and is good for 98% of people. I do 40 just because I’m super anal and have found that it does make a pretty big difference.

 

[NYyotekiller]

Most important is broadheads and field points at distance. But, you need to be able to consistently group at whatever distance you're testing to tell the difference. For me - when I'm shooting well, I want broadheads grouping with my field points at 80 yards, except maybe a little drop from the broadhead.

How I do it: I don't paper tune any more, for me it's a waste of time. I just shoot bare shaft vs. fletched at 5-10, 20, and 30 yards, adjust until they group the same. Then, swap over to broadheads vs. field points. If you're pressed for time - do bare shafts 5-10 at home first, adjust, then head to the range and shoot bare shafts and broadheads v field points at the range to fine tune. Done and done.

The initial adjustments at home in the basement get me surprisingly close. I'm looking for difference in impact point and impact angle of the bare shaft as compared to fletched. (But, be careful with angle depending on type of target you're shooting into, foam / block style targets should be fine, bag targets not always)

This is the exact same process that I do.

It saves you tons of time by only having to do one tune. I used to paper tune and then broadhead tune but I figured out that bareshaft tuning will be quicker and just as good as the other two.

 

[Wodez]

Thanks for the help. I had a go yesterday before seeing most of your replies, just doing a paper tune... I might be having either a contact issue or torque issue. So I’ll look into that first. Just occasionally wasn’t a consistent tear

What way am I adjusting when doing this bare shaft, fletched and broadhead tune. Move rest towards which arrow?

 

[Brendan]

First make sure you eliminate contact. Use foot powder, baby powder, lipstick, whatever. You'll chase your tail if you don't. I also like to make sure draw length, draw weight are correct, and bow is timed correctly before starting tuning. I will generally start with arrow direct down the center of the limb bolts / parallel to the riser, and running horizontal through the center of the berger hole.

Then try this for nock right, broadhead or bare shaft missing left of field point, right tear through paper etc...

• Tighten Right Yoke
• Loosen Left Yoke
• Rest Left
• Shim Cam(s) to the Right
• Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.

Adjustments are opposite for nock left.

If you have a nock high / broadhead low - raise the rest or lower nocking point. Vice versa for nock low / broadhead high.

 

[Beendare]

But if I paper tune and get that shooting correct but then have to broadhead tune to get my target points and broadheads to group together is that not making the bow not tuned. Because I am altering from the paper tune.

Yes! Paper tuning is only 1/2 way there.

If your BH's don't hit with FP's then the arrow is coming out of the bow askew just enough to where the BH is affecting it. When its coming out perfectly straight...the BH has no effect.

FP's are pretty forgiving of tune....thus they don't tell you enough.

Typically it only takes a very small rest adjustment [ no more than 1/16"] to get it perfect....otherwise something else is going on. Note; you have to be shooting an arrow that spins with zero wobble to tune.

________

 

[Wodez]

First make sure you eliminate contact. Use foot powder, baby powder, lipstick, whatever. You'll chase your tail if you don't. I also like to make sure draw length, draw weight are correct, and bow is timed correctly before starting tuning. I will generally start with arrow direct down the center of the limb bolts / parallel to the riser, and running horizontal through the center of the berger hole.

Then try this for nock right, broadhead or bare shaft missing left of field point, right tear through paper etc...

• Tighten Right Yoke
• Loosen Left Yoke
• Rest Left
• Shim Cam(s) to the Right
• Crank down flex guard for more sideways string pressure / more string clearance.

Adjustments are opposite for nock left.

If you have a nock high / broadhead low - raise the rest or lower nocking point. Vice versa for nock low / broadhead high.

You mentioning shims and yoke reminds me I have a bit of can lean.
It’s a 2017 Hoyt pro defiant turbo. 70 pound.
The bottom cam has a lean on it and it just barely rubs on one of the cables while drawing/release. I took it to my local shop twice and both times they said it is normally for this bow and this is the best one they have seen. I asked them to swap the shims but they talked me out of it.
The lean is making me adjust my sight closer to the riser and I am starting to not see my full sight ring.
perhaps this is a hole new topic of its ownand I should start a new thread on that.

 

[doncarpenter]

You mentioning shims and yoke reminds me I have a bit of can lean.
It’s a 2017 Hoyt pro defiant turbo. 70 pound.
The bottom cam has a lean on it and it just barely rubs on one of the cables while drawing/release. I took it to my local shop twice and both times they said it is normally for this bow and this is the best one they have seen. I asked them to swap the shims but they talked me out of it.
The lean is making me adjust my sight closer to the riser and I am starting to not see my full sight ring.
perhaps this is a hole new topic of its ownand I should start a new thread on that.

What part of the cam rubs the cable? I worked on a buddy's Defiant that had the same issue, his draw stop was hitting snagging the wrong cable every time. I tried swapping shims and eventually had two swap the limbs. You're gonna chew through your cable fast if it's hitting the cam every time the cam rolls over. I would not be ok with that.

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[Wodez]

What part of the cam rubs the cable? I worked on a buddy's Defiant that had the same issue, his draw stop was hitting snagging the wrong cable every time. I tried swapping shims and eventually had two swap the limbs. You're gonna chew through your cable fast if it's hitting the cam every time the cam rolls over. I would not be ok with that.

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The cable just looks a bit black and discolored. And Some serving separation. It looks like it hasnt not got much worse since I first noticed it 1 year ago. But I really wish it had no lean.
You can see the smudge on the cam where it rubs. I think it only rubs at mid draw

 

[Coastiehunter2]

I skip paper and bareshaft

 

[TRed]

I do bareshaft and broadhead tuning.

 

[406unltd]

I get it close with paper not perfect. Then screw on broadheads and make any minor adjustment to rest and it’s ready to roll.

 

[sammymc12w]

Paper, bare shaft and broadhead here.


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[StopMakingSense]

A lot of good information here from the collective, nothing to add besides figure out a process and only change one variable at a time when tuning.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I also though GoHunt put out a really nice article on this in a concise manner - https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/what-does-it-really-mean-to-tune-your-bow