Paper Tuning - Has me puzzled…

[RockinRam96]

Very disappointed in the shop I’ve been dealing with. Called today to ask if I could go in abs work with them to get my bow tunes. Their response was “You can leave it with us and we’ll tune it.”

So I guess I’m on the lookout for a press and a tuning kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[bsnedeker]

Very disappointed in the shop I’ve been dealing with. Called today to ask if I could go in abs work with them to get my bow tunes. Their response was “You can leave it with us and we’ll tune it.”

So I guess I’m on the lookout for a press and a tuning kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This time of year you can expect that out of just about every shop. Lots of guys wait until August to get their bows ready for September which means bow shops are always slammed. I'm guessing this year it is particularly bad because bow manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand so lots of folks waited months before they could even get their hands on their new bows, let alone get them tuned.

 

[Zac]

Very disappointed in the shop I’ve been dealing with. Called today to ask if I could go in abs work with them to get my bow tunes. Their response was “You can leave it with us and we’ll tune it.”

So I guess I’m on the lookout for a press and a tuning kit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would probably buy a point kit from Ethics, and an arrow saw before going to a press. That method is much easier.

 

[RockinRam96]

This time of year you can expect that out of just about every shop. Lots of guys wait until August to get their bows ready for September which means bow shops are always slammed. I'm guessing this year it is particularly bad because bow manufacturers couldn't keep up with demand so lots of folks waited months before they could even get their hands on their new bows, let alone get them tuned.

Bought the bow brand new from this shop. Got it in May. According to them it was “tuned” when it left. Not knowing the difference I thought that was how it was done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[RockinRam96]

I would probably buy a point kit from Ethics, and an arrow saw before going to a press. That method is much easier.

Thanks. I’ll check it out.

But I still think the cams need shimming. Looking at the top and bottom shims, they’re flipped. Top has the thicker gray shim on the left. Bottom cam has the thick shim on the right. Paper tuning the knock needs to go to the right. Rest is moved all the way right. Has improved grouping immensely. But needs to go more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zac]

Thanks. I’ll check it out.

But I still think the cams need shimming. Looking at the top and bottom shims, they’re flipped. Top has the thicker gray shim on the left. Bottom cam has the thick shim on the right. Paper tuning the knock needs to go to the right. Rest is moved all the way right. Has improved grouping immensely. But needs to go more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It does need shimmed, most of them do. However you can probably fix it with a little work on your shafts much easier. Especially if you are in a time crunch. The shimming configuration on your bow is how they come from the factory.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

But I still think the cams need shimming. Looking at the top and bottom shims, they’re flipped. Top has the thicker gray shim on the left. Bottom cam has the thick shim on the right. Paper tuning the knock needs to go to the right. Rest is moved all the way right. Has improved grouping immensely. But needs to go more.

I agree that cam shimming is your best bet. If you wanted to test if/how much weak spine might be contributing to your nock left tear (which I think is what Zac is suggesting with his recommendation to get a saw and trim the arrows), you could turn your draw weight down and see if the tear improves.

 

[RockinRam96]

It does need shimmed, most of them do. However you can probably fix it with a little work on your shafts much easier. Especially if you are in a time crunch. The shimming configuration on your bow is how they come from the factory.

Further proves my point that it was never paper tuned at the shop and needs to be done. Seems to me a press is the only thing that is going to solve this issue.

I agree that cam shimming is your best bet. If you wanted to test if/how much weak spine might be contributing to your nock left tear (which I think is what Zac is suggesting with his recommendation to get a saw and trim the arrows), you could turn your draw weight down and see if the tear improves.

Thanks guys. I can’t imagine this is a spine issue. I have a 27.5” draw length with 26” arrows and maxed out 70 lb limbs. According to the shop and Easton website I should be shooting 400 grain arrows with a 100 grain field point.

I have spined up to 340 grain arrows in prep for heavier points. When dropping down spine, POI didn’t seem to be affected.

 

[bsnedeker]

Further proves my point that it was never paper tuned at the shop and needs to be done. Seems to me a press is the only thing that is going to solve this issue.

So, first thing I'll say is that any shop that just hands you a bow and says it's tuned without having you shoot it should not be trusted. A bow needs to be tuned to the shooter and their specific arrows. You always need to verify a paper tune yourself before you walk out of the shop and any good bow shop should insist on this in my opinion.

That said, I'm willing to bet the shop DID paper tune it and it was probably shooting a bullet hole for the person who tuned it. That person probably has excellent form. You, on the other hand, as a new shooter probably have some form/grip issues or you might have some differences in the way you follow through on your shots. This makes a dramatic difference in your tune. You need to either correct your form issues, or you can just tune the bow to your specific form in many cases.

For example, this year I bought a new Ventum 33 and had some new GAS bowstrings put on it at the shop. I went in, dude had already paper tuned it, I shot it with my Backstrap tension release and I had a 2" nock left tear. He shot it himself with his release and demonstrated a perfect hole. I then switched over to my regular trigger release I shot a perfect bullet hole myself. What I realized is that when I tried to execute back tension I was pulling back away from my face rather than pulling straight back. This is something I've been working on all summer but still haven't perfected yet...now I'm getting just a little bit of left tear from time to time when using back tension.

 

[Zac]

Tuning is always your responsibility. Even if you shoot a bullet hole at the shop. It is still just a starting point. There isn't an easy button in archery. The 340s you have should work fine, just don't go throwing your 200 grain heads on or you'll be right back where you started. Should be alot easier to get a stiff shaft to tune out of that than something that is on the border.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Thanks guys. I can’t imagine this is a spine issue. I have a 27.5” draw length with 26” arrows and maxed out 70 lb limbs. According to the shop and Easton website I should be shooting 400 grain arrows with a 100 grain field point.

I have spined up to 340 grain arrows in prep for heavier points. When dropping down spine, POI didn’t seem to be affected.

I don't actually think spine is your issue either, just suggesting a way to test for weak spine (if you wanted to) that would be cheaper/easier than buying a saw or new arrows. At 26" you probably don't have much room to further trim your existing arrows anyway. 340 spine should be about right at your specs.

FYI, those three digit static spine numbers (340, 400, etc) are the amount (in thousandths of an inch) the shaft bends when a test weight (1.94 lbs) is hung from the center of a 28" span of shaft...has nothing to do with grains.

 

[Bwana]

There are so many variables in getting a perfect tune, from archer to archer. I would set the rest at 13/16", I would check the cam timing, I would make sure the QAD rest is timed correctly(if not you have fletching contact). The older bows had a more forgiving grip, along with slower speeds & less aggressive cams...take a serious look at your form and most of all your grip.

Spin test at least 2 bareshafts, and 2 fletched arrows before bothering to tune. If you have a spine tested, then use it. Make sure your nocks fit the string correctly, too tight completely destroys tune and accuracy.

Start with the basics, before you deep dive into bow mechanics and bandaids to cover an issue with initial set up. Bareshaft tuning is the hardest method to master because there are no fletch to guide the arrow, grip and form are critical for success.

And on, and on, and on.

 

[RockinRam96]

I completely get what you guys are saying about form. I agree 100% that it can be a difference maker. I am not saying I have perfect form or know what perfect form is but I do believe I have very consistent form. I have a check list in my head that I run through before I let every arrow fly.

I could believe it is form if I did not see better results from my initial paper tune and groups on target. But after I "paper tuned" to the limits I can with my rest, my groups out to 40 and 50 yards tightened right up. This is why I believe my form, maybe not perfect, but consistent to shoot repeatable shots.

What I am getting at here is I believe the next steps to get this bow closer to perfect I need a press or someone with a press and the knowledge to put adjust the cams where they need to go.

I understand archery isn't cheap. And I understand I am not the only guy out there spending this kind of money on a bow, but I was hoping for some more "expert" help. Otherwise I would have stayed with my old bow.

I like to tinker and "perfect" things. With the time and money I have into this bow and all I shoot, I want to know if I miss a shot in the field, it by my own doing. A mistake I made. Not in my equipment.

I really do appreciate all of the information.

 

[doncarpenter]

Where are you located? If you're anywhere near Northern Illinois you're more than welcome to come use my equipment.

You may be close to someone else on here. Can't hurt to ask.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

 

[RockinRam96]

Where are you located? If you're anywhere near Northern Illinois you're more than welcome to come use my equipment.

You may be close to someone else on here. Can't hurt to ask.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

I appreciate that. Unfortunately I am in NY.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bwana]

I wasn't suggesting that your form isn't solid, just that many of the new bows require slight changes to your grip or thumb pressure to achieve good results tuning. Some bow throat grips fit us better than others, but hand/grip torque is the number one killer in accuracy.

Many of us long time shooters have had to make subtle changes, to be able to be accurate with today's (past 5-7 years) bows.

 

[JeffRaines]

I like to tinker and "perfect" things. With the time and money I have into this bow and all I shoot, I want to know if I miss a shot in the field, it by my own doing. A mistake I made. Not in my equipment.

Anyone who feels this way should purchase a press - seriously. It’s the only way most people are gonna see perfect.

It’s not to say that some bow shops arent good because some are - but one, there’s far too many hacks out there who don’t have a clue what’s going on… and two, even the good ones have a backlog of work - if your bow is gonna take 1 hour to get to 85% and 3 extra hours to get to 100% guess what - you’re getting a 85% so he can get to the next bow on the wall. No one is going to spend the time on it like you will because it’s yours. The expense of a press sucks, but now I no longer have to wonder if the work being done is right

FWIW I also had a tear with my Ventum 33 and ended up needing to shim as well to get it close. After that I bareshaft tuned at 20 and then walk backed. Broadheads were dead on after that.

Also, I’d stop letting that shop touch my bows. If they send you out the door with a paper tuned bow and you weren’t the one shooting it - well, remember how I said there’s too many hacks out there? The shop you’re going to employs one of those guys.

 

[RockinRam96]

Anyone who feels this way should purchase a press - seriously. It’s the only way most people are gonna see perfect.

It’s not to say that some bow shops arent good because some are - but one, there’s far too many hacks out there who don’t have a clue what’s going on… and two, even the good ones have a backlog of work - if your bow is gonna take 1 hour to get to 85% and 3 extra hours to get to 100% guess what - you’re getting a 85% so he can get to the next bow on the wall. No one is going to spend the time on it like you will because it’s yours. The expense of a press sucks, but now I no longer have to wonder if the work being done is right

FWIW I also had a tear with my Ventum 33 and ended up needing to shim as well to get it close. After that I bareshaft tuned at 20 and then walk backed. Broadheads were dead on after that.

Also, I’d stop letting that shop touch my bows. If they send you out the door with a paper tuned bow and you weren’t the one shooting it - well, remember how I said there’s too many hacks out there? The shop you’re going to employs one of those guys.

I think I am on track to buy a press. It may not get used very often but it will be great to have to get this bow tuned and in the future when I need strings and such.

I guess my question now is where can I get a shim kit. I’m guessing Hoyt? Will they sell me one being that I’m not a dealer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Zac]

I think I am on track to buy a press. It may not get used very often but it will be great to have to get this bow tuned and in the future when I need strings and such.

I guess my question now is where can I get a shim kit. I’m guessing Hoyt? Will they sell me one being that I’m not a dealer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You'll have to go through your shop, try to pick up the shim tool as well. I used a butter knife to pop the C clips before I got the tool. If the Hoyt kit doesn't work your gonna have to buy the PSE kit off of Lancaster. I bought both. Now I'm sitting on 100 dollars of shims.

 

[Bwana]

I think I am on track to buy a press. It may not get used very often but it will be great to have to get this bow tuned and in the future when I need strings and such.

I guess my question now is where can I get a shim kit. I’m guessing Hoyt? Will they sell me one being that I’m not a dealer?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Be careful some of the Hoyts require a special limb adapter for the press, because of their past parallel limb shape...and the adapters are expensive like $200. I know EZ Press required them for my Hoyt Defiant 30, but not many of my other bows..so do your research carefully.