Patagonia (please read)

[BackcountryBloodline]

Hey guys,

Have been seeing lots of mentions of Patagonia in the clothing section and seeing lots in the classifieds. They undeniably do make high quality mountaineering gear and I can understand why some people would choose to wear their clothing. That said I get prorated on their gear through my work and won't buy a pair of socks from them...I don't part with my money easy and am always looking for a deal when I can find one. If a company isn't vocally pro hunting that's no deal breaker for me, everyone is entitled to their own views and causes. When a company is openly ANTI hunting though and supports groups that are actively working against my rights as a resident BC hunter I refuse to support them no matter how good the gear/deal is. In 2017, the "wildlife defense league" which is an anti hunting group based in BC, led the charge in having grizzly hunting banned throughout the province...we have the highest (and ever growing) griz population in the world and they need management just like any other species, actually more if you consider their lack of natural predators aside from us. The same group is currently pursuing doing the same with black bear, wolves, coyotes, lynx, cougar and bobcat and are being backed by the Vancouver Patagonia location. Patagonia has taken a hands off approach with this and stated that it has nothing to do with them and is simply an individual franchise decision. That doesn't sit very well with me since WDL events are being hosted at the Patagonia store itself, using the Patagonia name for credibility and the money being donated in the name of Patagonia was presumably earned off the marketing done by the brand itself.

Just thought I would fill you guys in on this, I've mentioned it before on other threads but figured I would drop it here as a reminder to vote with your dollar however you can this season. At this point I would rather hunt late season downpours in cotton mossy oak from walmart and embrace the suck than line Patagonia's pockets and help strip my own rights away, luckily we have companies that offer similar quality and also openly support hunting at a small premium if any.

Stay warm and dry, but first and foremost please support the maintenance of our rights and freedoms wherever possible!

 

[prm]

Yvon Chuinard, the founder of Patagonia, hunts. He is also very left environmentally/politically. All that to say I don't think it's as black and white as it may initially appear.

 

[Downeaster]

Thanks for sharing. Wouldnt give them a nickel and it's good to see theyre earning my continued lack of support.

 

[Kotaman]

I always try to support the companies that support my passion. Sitka, First Lite, KUIU, Skre, SG, Kifaru etc. will continue to get my money. Honestly, I’d feel somewhat ashamed to wear Patagonia on a hunt.

 

[Antarctica]

Good points. Patagonia has a great 'American Bootstraps' story in Yvon, and has certainly made good gear. Most of it seems greatly overrated these days and they seem to sell more of their brand/lifestyle, than they do useful equipment. I avoid it these days cause its so overpriced.

It does appear to me that many of the current slate of trendy hunting gear/clothing have picked up and run with the Patagonia 'lifestyle' marketing model (I used to look forward to getting a patagonia catalogue in the mail years ago like getting a hunting magazine).

Disappointing that the corporate parent is not willing to stand up for hunting. Blaming the message on a 'franchisee' is a cop out.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

Evan Chuinard, the founder of Patagonia, hunts. He is also a very left environmentally/politically. All that to say I don't think it's as black and white as it may initially appear.

I think guys who shoot a deer every fall but "would never shoot a wolf because they only kill what they eat" do more harm to our cause than good, not sure I would really refer to them as hunters although I try to be as open to as many forms of hunting and different perspectives as possible. In my opinion if he was a true conservationist he would personally visit the Vancouver location and educate some of these hypocritical idiots on a true nuanced balance and how that's achieved as well as the fact that there has never been a time in human history when any of those species weren't managed in BC. We're already seeing our carbibou numbers plummet to extrapation levels and moose won't be far behind, any hunter worth his salt would see the issue in supporting that continued decline in the name of appeasing the vocal minority.

 

[Kilboars]

I stopped buying it years ago.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I think guys who shoot a deer every fall but "would never shoot a wolf because they only kill what they eat" do more harm to our cause than good, not sure I would really refer to them as hunters...n

hmmm. I encourage you to support what companies you like but I am not sure you are doing yourself any favors by throwing stones at fellow hunters.

 

[willfrye027]

Why buy Pattagucci when you can get solid colors from Kuiu, first lite, and Sitka...

 

[tam9492]

I think guys who shoot a deer every fall but "would never shoot a wolf because they only kill what they eat" do more harm to our cause than good, not sure I would really refer to them as hunters although I try to be as open to as many forms of hunting and different perspectives as possible.

It seems to me that this is the exact definition of a hunter? I understand what you're saying with regards to contributing to the conservation effort, but saying that someone who hunts species such as wolves is more of a hunter that someone who only kills what they eat is irresponsible. I just see it as two types of hunters - both who are rightful in their pursuits.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

hmmm. I encourage you to support what companies you like but I am not sure you are doing yourself any favors by throwing stones at fellow hunters.

Hence why I followed that up with the fact that I try to be as open to as many forms of hunting and perspectives as possible. I'm open to being educated on why I'm the one being narrow minded here but if someone can't see the correlation between something they eat regularly and a direct predatory competition for that food source that has been traditionally managed by us as a species I'm not sure I'm the one in need of a reality check. That said I hate the fact that we as hunters seem to be shooting almost as many holes in the boat as anyone opposing us and would hate to do that myself, however someone who calls themselves a hunter but is actually anti hunting depending on the species, what's done with the harvest, the skin color of the hunter etc should probably ask themselves what a hunter really is. I'll support someones right to shoot nothing but ungulates until the cows come home as long as they have a truly nuanced perspective on things, those two points of view seem to be rarely held simultaneously though.

 

[brsnow]

I think guys who shoot a deer every fall but "would never shoot a wolf because they only kill what they eat" do more harm to our cause than good, not sure I would really refer to them as hunters although I try to be as open to as many forms of hunting and different perspectives as possible. In my opinion if he was a true conservationist he would personally visit the Vancouver location and educate some of these hypocritical idiots on a true nuanced balance and how that's achieved as well as the fact that there has never been a time in human history when any of those species weren't managed in BC. We're already seeing our carbibou numbers plummet to extrapation levels and moose won't be far behind, any hunter worth his salt would see the issue in supporting that continued decline in the name of appeasing the vocal minority.

I apparently am not worth my salt.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

It seems to me that this is the exact definition of a hunter? I understand what you're saying with regards to contributing to the conservation effort, but saying that someone who hunts species such as wolves is more of a hunter that someone who only kills what they eat is irresponsible. I just see it as two types of hunters - both who are rightful in their pursuits.

By this definition, anyone who has ever set a mouse trap is a trapper. I knew that statement would rock the boat, to be honest though I'm sick of that mentality, if any of our ancestors knew any of us hunted ungulates but would pass up any opportunity to manage local predator numbers they would spin in their graves.

 

[cmahoney]

I think Patagonia has a much more active role in attacking our current management model than just not participating in predictor hunting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

I think my statement was taken the wrong way. If you shoot a deer every year and have zero interest in shooting a wolf or bear as well have at it. I teach my son we don't pursue any ungulates until we've shot a predator for the season, I don't think that makes me any more of better of a hunter than someone who shoots nothing but deer as long as that guy supports my right to do so. If someone calls themselves a hunter but is actively working AGAINST hunting as a form of wildlife management does that not seem ass backwards? Or is the selective hearing that prevalent. Didn't mean that as an attack on anyone's outlook or way of hunting, just sharing my perspective looking at a province full of people complaining about the decline in deer, elk, moose and caribou but claiming they don't shoot wolves or bears because they only kill what they eat...when if they killed a wolf or two every winter they might have an extra deer or two for the freezer come fall.

 

[tam9492]

By this definition, anyone who has ever set a mouse trap is a trapper. I knew that statement would rock the boat, to be honest though I'm sick of that mentality, if any of our ancestors knew any of us hunted ungulates but would pass up any opportunity to manage local predator numbers they would spin in their graves.

No, the person who trapped a mouse to utilize the hide would be a trapper - opposite of your definition of a wolf hunter.

Did natives of the North American continent actively hunt predators strictly for management purposes? I'm ignorant on this subject and genuinely interested.

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

I think Patagonia has a much more active role in attacking our current management model than just not participating in predictor hunting.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Wow, didn't see that one, thanks for the extra info! This is in the lower 48? My pattern recognition senses are tingling here...

 

[tam9492]

I think my statement was taken the wrong way. If you shoot a deer every year and have zero interest in shooting a wolf or bear as well have at it. I teach my son we don't pursue any ungulates until we've shot a predator for the season, I don't think that makes me any more of better of a hunter than someone who shoots nothing but deer as long as that guy supports my right to do so. If someone calls themselves a hunter but is actively working AGAINST hunting as a form of wildlife management does that not seem ass backwards? Or is the selective hearing that prevalent. Didn't mean that as an attack on anyone's outlook or way of hunting, just sharing my perspective looking at a province full of people complaining about the decline in deer, elk, moose and caribou but claiming they don't shoot wolves or bears because they only kill what they eat...when if they killed a wolf or two every winter they might have an extra deer or two for the freezer.

This makes much more sense. Tracking ya now...

 

[BackcountryBloodline]

No, the person who trapped a mouse to utilize the hide would be a trapper - opposite of your definition of a wolf hunter.

Did natives of the North American continent actively hunt predators strictly for management purposes? I'm ignorant on this subject and genuinely interested.

Yes. Every native american group in north america had deadfall traps on every local riverbank. They also generally attacked, tortured and killed human hunting parties caught in their territories, some ate them, some didn't. Coyotes, wolves and bears were seen as direct competition, meat and fur was seen as an awesome byproduct of managing them, griz claws and wolf teeth were seen as a universal status symbol not just because they were hard to acquire but also what the acquisition stood for. They have 24/7/365 access to our wildlife in BC, no tags, no bag limits, no closed seasons, no game laws. Cows and calves are the primary target. When asked about predator hunting the response is generally "I don't hunt bears or wolves, cultural teachings." There is zero evidence that any native tribes here would forego predator management because of any traditional beliefs and significant evidence to the contrary. I'm working on a short film on bear hunting and have looked into this pretty extensively, the primitive bear hunting methods are incredibly interesting if you dive down that rabbit hole. Glad we're getting to be on the same page, I may have worded that poorly but didn't mean to step on any toes as I know that's a commonly held point of view, just always trying to open as many eyes to the bigger picture as possible!

 

[menhaden_man]

Hey guys,

Have been seeing lots of mentions of Patagonia in the clothing section and seeing lots in the classifieds. They undeniably do make high quality mountaineering gear and I can understand why some people would choose to wear their clothing. That said I get prorated on their gear through my work and won't buy a pair of socks from them...I don't part with my money easy and am always looking for a deal when I can find one. If a company isn't vocally pro hunting that's no deal breaker for me, everyone is entitled to their own views and causes. When a company is openly ANTI hunting though and supports groups that are actively working against my rights as a resident BC hunter I refuse to support them no matter how good the gear/deal is. In 2017, the "wildlife defense league" which is an anti hunting group based in BC, led the charge in having grizzly hunting banned throughout the province...we have the highest (and ever growing) griz population in the world and they need management just like any other species, actually more if you consider their lack of natural predators aside from us. The same group is currently pursuing doing the same with black bear, wolves, coyotes, lynx, cougar and bobcat and are being backed financially by the Vancouver Patagonia location. Patagonia has taken a hands off approach with this and stated that it has nothing to do with them and is simply an individual franchise decision. That doesn't sit very well with me since WDL events are being hosted at the Patagonia store itself, using the Patagonia name for credibility and the money being donated in the name of Patagonia was presumably earned off the marketing done by the brand itself.

Just thought I would fill you guys in on this, I've mentioned it before on other threads but figured I would drop it here as a reminder to vote with your dollar however you can this season. At this point I would rather hunt late season downpours in cotton mossy oak from walmart and embrace the suck than line Patagonia's pockets and help strip my own rights away, luckily we have companies that offer similar quality and also openly support hunting at a small premium if any.

Stay warm and dry, but first and foremost please support the maintenance of our rights and freedoms wherever possible!

They're doing their part with anti-hydro electric and anti-hatchery propaganda, too (a few one-sided movies they released over the past couple years). Thanks for posting - folks need to vote with their wallet.